All

[welderguy]

1 Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Does "all" mean every individual here in both phrases?
It has to.
Is it saying we all died physically or spiritually? Is it saying we all shall be made alive physically or spiritually?
It cannot mean physically because of verse 51.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

So, we shall not all sleep, but in Adam all die...
....but in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[gordon 2]

I read it simply. It says that those "in Christ" shall be made alive. I suspect it means Christians and others also who Christ has ministered to with good effect yet they knew not it was him, are given eternal life through Christ. So since eternal life is a spiritual benefit, the comparison that "in Adam" all die most likely means the opposite of eternal life or the lack of this spiritual benefit.

Now the curse of Adam's transgression is not only loss of eternal life ( banishment from the Garden of Eden where God walked with man) but also physical death itself according to scripture's account. Once the curse of banishment is removed by being "in Christ" we are still going to die physically except some won't at the end, but like Christ our destiny is resurrection. I suspect the change will be a physical one, since we are already changed spiritually "in Christ" being restored to eternal life.

The word "all" here is simply used to indicate or describe condition or state and not indicative of any individual. In Adam all die because... In Christ all live because... It simply describes the condition of being in Adam and "in Christ". There is no choice to be in Adam, their is choice involved to be "in Christ".

All in Adam die because of loss of eternal life and a curse. In Christ all live because of Grace with the regaining of eternal life and the promise of physical resurrection ( which assumes removal of the curse of death at some point in time. )

There is possibly much more to say... as in "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." When will they see God? Is it indicative of much more than mere physical sight? Or it physical sight alone? Did Adam see God when they walked together?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I recall a verse or passage that says death came to all men through the first Adam and many men will be saved by the second Adam. I can't remember what verse but I think it used the term second Adam.

It's like "all" was used to condemn, but "many" was used for redemption. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Artfuldodger]

What would be the point of religion if all were condemned and then all were saved? I mean God could have just kept His whole story to Himself.

 

[Artfuldodger]

OK, I found it. It's the Romans 5 version;

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Romans 5:15
But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many!

Now I'm rethinking, verse 15 says "many" died and "many" received. Yet verse 12 says "all."

What does "many" mean? The Greek word is "polloi" or "pollous."

 

[Artfuldodger]

In relation to the banquet;
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

 

[welderguy]

OK, I found it. It's the Romans 5 version;

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Romans 5:15
But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many!

Now I'm rethinking, verse 15 says "many" died and "many" received. Yet verse 12 says "all."

What does "many" mean? The Greek word is "polloi" or "pollous."

But did you read verse 18?

 

[welderguy]

In relation to the banquet;
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

For the Kingdom specifically, not eternal life. It's a kingdom parable.

 

[Artfuldodger]

But did you read verse 18?

Maybe so if justification means acquittal.

 

[welderguy]

I read it simply. It says that those "in Christ" shall be made alive. I suspect it means Christians and others also who Christ has ministered to with good effect yet they knew not it was him, are given eternal life through Christ. So since eternal life is a spiritual benefit, the comparison that "in Adam" all die most likely means the opposite of eternal life or the lack of this spiritual benefit.

Now the curse of Adam's transgression is not only loss of eternal life ( banishment from the Garden of Eden where God walked with man) but also physical death itself according to scripture's account. Once the curse of banishment is removed by being "in Christ" we are still going to die physically except some won't at the end, but like Christ our destiny is resurrection. I suspect the change will be a physical one, since we are already changed spiritually "in Christ" being restored to eternal life.

The word "all" here is simply used to indicate or describe condition or state and not indicative of any individual. In Adam all die because... In Christ all live because... It simply describes the condition of being in Adam and "in Christ". There is no choice to be in Adam, their is choice involved to be "in Christ".

All in Adam die because of loss of eternal life and a curse. In Christ all live because of Grace with the regaining of eternal life and the promise of physical resurrection ( which assumes removal of the curse of death at some point in time. )

There is possibly much more to say... as in "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." When will they see God? Is it indicative of much more than mere physical sight? Or it physical sight alone? Did Adam see God when they walked together?

I can't really swallow your concept of having a choice to be in Christ. That would require a spiritually dead man to exercise life, which he doesn't have, to gain life. Contradictory.

 

[welderguy]

OK, I found it. It's the Romans 5 version;

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Romans 5:15
But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many!

Now I'm rethinking, verse 15 says "many" died and "many" received. Yet verse 12 says "all."

What does "many" mean? The Greek word is "polloi" or "pollous."

All is many in my thinking.

 

[gordon 2]

I can't really swallow your concept of having a choice to be in Christ. That would require a spiritually dead man to exercise life, which he doesn't have, to gain life. Contradictory.

>>>>Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The unfortunate man had a choice to make.

But besides this, how many who believe in God have refused the alter call or having accepted it, later fall back... to believing in the Father only?

Very few human beings( if any) are spiritually dead...

Why would Jesus indicate to individuals " Follow me." if they had not a choice to follow some other thing, something else or someone else? "Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men."

Jesus himself made choices when he was tempted in the desert.

Paul made choices because the Holy Spirit made choices that Paul should not go to Asia. In what ways are we the image of God? Are choices of that image?


And why this:


So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”… Why would Jesus ask this if the twelve had not a choice.

We know that, " From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him."

I submit that the disciples and believers in the God of Abraham had and have a choice to be in Christ and some refused to continue to be in Christ. And so it is this way today... I know disciples that were "all in Christ" who chose latter to no longer be so. They are not spiritually dead people... and never were. They have issues and for these issues make choices to be in and out...

 

[gordon 2]

Do we have a choice to trust Christ and or in what we find the bible says? The Jews trust in what the bible says-- what separates them from those in Christ?

Did Job have a choice in what to believe and choices in who to believe? What is faith? Is their choice in faith to abide with it? Is there choice to abide in friendship? Is there choice to abide with love? Is there choice to receive and to give? I there choice in giving and taking. Is there choice in who we will see as least? Is there choice in what we will claim to be of Christ our Lord? How many are called but chose to forgo a response? Jonahs.. chose even today.

 

[welderguy]

Do we have a choice to trust Christ and or in what we find the bible says? The Jews trust in what the bible says-- what separates them from those in Christ?

Did Job have a choice in what to believe and choices in who to believe? What is faith? Is their choice in faith to abide with it? Is there choice to abide in friendship? Is there choice to abide with love? Is there choice to receive and to give? I there choice in giving and taking.

We do have choices. Not saying that at all. But to be in Christ is to have Christ in you. They go hand in hand. Inseparable. You simply cannot decide to have Christ removed from you. He promised this. And I'm so glad He did!
Nothing can separate us from the love of God which is "in Christ".(Rom.8:39)

 

[gordon 2]

There was a tread here during the days of Bill Clinton and the Oklahoma Bomber that was about the all here ( Biblical all) not meaning all all the time...

 

[StriperAddict]

We could make "by grace thru faith" ALL too complicated. I know I did for years, no rest for the Pharisee or justice chaser.
Yet ... Lil kids get Jesus easily because the yoke is easy. It can be no other way. We'd all be boasters in something (someone) we get by merit, not faith. But faith is the catalyst!

I'm just talking relationship, vertical, a free gift. What comes after reflects this, no burden attached as we free share with the world. ☺

 

[welderguy]

We could make "by grace thru faith" ALL too complicated. I know I did for years, no rest for the Pharisee or justice chaser.
Yet ... Lil kids get Jesus easily because the yoke is easy. It can be no other way. We'd all be boasters in something (someone) we get by merit, not faith. But faith is the catalyst!

I'm just talking relationship, vertical, a free gift. What comes after reflects this, no burden attached as we free share with the world. ☺

Sooo....in 1 Cor.15:22, which "all's" really mean ALL?

 

[1gr8bldr]

The key here is "all" "in Christ". Not all are "in" Christ. This is short for baptized in Jesus name

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. e

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[welderguy]

The key here is "all" "in Christ". Not all are "in" Christ. This is short for baptized in Jesus name

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. e

Are you sure you're not rearranging the words to make it fit what you want it to say?