And if a man also strive for masteries

Thread starter #1


Senior Member
yet is he not crowned except he strive lawfully.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Something is dying by its perfect operation that something else live by His perfect work.

Something smells.

gordon 2

Senior Member
Nope. The perfect operation of the worldly has a predestined dead end. :) That's the way it seems to work every time.

The bell tolls...

It is not easy to love... don't care who you are and I suppose it can be hard work... even for lovers.
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It is not easy to love... don't care who you are and I suppose it can be hard work... even for lovers.
This could set in motion a beautiful discussion about a beautiful lover. It might do some "earthly" mending too.
Thread starter #4


Senior Member
How seemingly opposing things are made to be true "at once"...

(What you do not see, and cannot, is the 15 minutes between the above partial sentence and this one...nor can you see what was discarded of thoughts...of trails thought to take, of intentions first considered of where to go, which, just because they are not pursued...does not mean they are rejected as deride-able...but something else)

And in the 15 minutes spent writing what's immediately above...BOOM...a resurrection of what seemed a thing to be discarded.

Teresa de Avila is reputed to have said once in her prayers..."If this is the way you treat your friends it is no wonder you have so few of them"

(Who knows how this "got out"? Did someone pass her closet door and hear? Did she publish it? If so, with what intent? Or is it spurious? A fiction? And if she did publish it...was it with any knowing or hope of imparting some insight into things a fool might say? Had she come to a place where she could truly laugh at herself...or was she like a man telling a joke at a pub to other men just for the sake of a laugh when saying "and then I told my wife...just before she hit me with the rolling pin..."...because all men "know" what women are like?)

Mostly to myself I carry an air as a truth-seeker (yes, it's supremely laughable)...and truly laughable for those more rare moments where I see something else...(a "truer" me) where a dog laying in the sun and finding it getting too hot as the morning progresses toward noon, just gets up to look for some shade. It's under that place where sun meets an earth born thing of roots and branches and leaves that keeps me from expiring. That tree bearing the beating down upon it...even soaking it up...the "all" that I cannot bear...and live.

Maybe even a different analogy; as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings for safety. Apart from that tree's provision I'm soon a sun bleached and desiccated rack. Apart from that hen's intent to save, I'm a snack for something else. Some might even say..."how could you possibly think in terms of having any wisdom in your own motions..when it's plain you know you have no choice when you sense death is about?" You have no more sense than an amoeba trying to move away from that part of its puddle into which a passing car has dropped a spot of oil or battery acid.

I lean for whatever reason to Teresa's having a good laugh at herself...and not just telling a "pub joke", even if (perhaps especially if) it did "get out" by her own publishing. Hearing herself, repeated to herself. Might she say..."yes that's true, I did say that!"? Or, "And yes, that's true, I was in a place of such freedom to converse that absolutely nothing was off limits to the One with whom I spoke"?

Might she say, no matter how it "got out"..."You know, I hear a fool talking...quite honestly...but still a fool."

There's something God shows His friend that, to what is not, is unbearable beyond the extreme. And it's only viewable from the shade, or under the wings...and frankly cannot even be known if "in it" for terror of such magnitude steals all reason.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

"If this is the way you treat your friends it is no wonder you have so few of them"

What choice would one like?

To know the One who can bear hearing that from a man...and how and why He is able?


As a pub joke, try this at home..."Honey, you make it really hard to love you..."

It may be honest, it may even feel true...till we hear ourselves.

gordon 2

Senior Member
How about that if you love with all your heart and mind... even the world that would rob of this very love, it had been better not having known a relationship of all love of heart and mind due the pain it gives to one now so ( newly) sensitive.

Sin and the effects of sin? Loathing and loathing of self? Or due the sudden unexplainable rushes of hate and anger, rage and abuse laying in wait in one's heart, a a heart familiar with the bliss and ecstasies of intimate union with God... yet ready ( in full view) to use the engines* of the prince of the world. (* Unrighteous designs or simply the flight or fight response of our endocrine system.)

The pain of the surprise of finding need to cover yourself...again! to a world that cannot bear to see you naked even though you are set to minister to it, or you cannot bear to get dressed for a climate not yours... yet you must. You must be all things to everyone... etc...

Teresa said that she found herself to unexplainable fits of anger I think... and that she would go from ecstasy to periodic despondency-- the latter perhaps unexplainable or very difficult to endure.

Like all saints she was able to judge right and wrong, good and evil while alive due another source. If she was like my mom... she might have been the victim of PMS and or worse somehow so straining her nerves to prepare a room for herself and the Lord... ( and provide for their children perhaps) that she would suffer from nervous exhaustion sometimes...and so depression had to be endured knowing full well that the Lord was yet with her and yet seemingly ( in appearance- in actuality) untouchable-distant.

And so it was so hard to love Him in her depressive states yet she did, and it was so hard to wait for all this to pass, knowing what awaited when it would pass. Every minute was like an hour and every hour like days, and the days were as yrs.

Maybe. Maybe the heart ever willing, the mind can't always keep up which causes much emotional pain to a sensitive saint.

I really don't know what was Teresa's beef, but I can tell you that intimacy with God can be something to fear because captured by God's love one is brought out of the world... and then you got to deal with it, the experience and the world all with a new heart and it ain't always easy... for a billion reasons...

Now I have to go weed my garden... of Weeds! Lots of weeds, big ones, little ones, some that vine unseen underground like my faith could be denied for them. As I spear my hoe to the rows I will dream, for that I have overcome... that already I am blessed that many hoes are no longer spears as mine.

Nevertheless come Lord, come. :)
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gordon 2

Senior Member
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The "worldly is dying". The Kingdom is blooming.
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