Any dog hunters here?

[Timberjack86]

I've recently acquired 3 mountain cur pups, I was planning on making hog dogs out of them but I've decided on bear as well. I've had coonhounds most of my life up until the last few years. I know the parents are killer tree dogs and some of the dogs in this line have made killer hog dogs. So here I go starting over with just pups! A buddy has give me a bear hide so we are almost ready to start tracking after I break them to lead. It's going to be a challenge I know but I'm ready to accept it! My buddy did offer to let them pups hunt with his hounds next year but they run a lot of dogs and I don't want 3 me too dogs, I want 3 dogs that can do it by there self.
Anybody ever trained pups without an older dog? Should I hunt them with his hounds next season?

 

[NCMTNHunter]

I've recently acquired 3 mountain cur pups, I was planning on making hog dogs out of them but I've decided on bear as well. I've had coonhounds most of my life up until the last few years. I know the parents are killer tree dogs and some of the dogs in this line have made killer hog dogs. So here I go starting over with just pups! A buddy has give me a bear hide so we are almost ready to start tracking after I break them to lead. It's going to be a challenge I know but I'm ready to accept it! My buddy did offer to let them pups hunt with his hounds next year but they run a lot of dogs and I don't want 3 me too dogs, I want 3 dogs that can do it by there self.
Anybody ever trained pups without an older dog? Should I hunt them with his hounds next season?

Before I give my opinion on this...

How serious of a bear hunter do you want to be?
Are you going to travel to other states where you can get in a lot of dog hunting?
Or will you just be going for Georgia's hunts if you can get in with someone with a tag?
Do you still want to hog hunt the dogs and take them bear hunting when you have the opportunity?

What kind of opportunity do have to run bear in the off season? (I don't know the ins and outs of Georgia's training seasons)

 

[Timberjack86]

I live across the state line in TN. We have several weeks of bear hunting with dogs. I'm planning on hunting most of them. Our training season is the first 2 weeks of September. Then kill season starts first week of October. Our mountains is very similar to y'all's. We are just as likely to strike a hog as we are a bear so I want them to do both. I'm pretty sure I can get them started baying a tame hog.

 

[NCMTNHunter]

Sounds good. I grew up hunting very similar to that just with hounds instead of curs so you might keep that in mind. If we turned on a hog or a bear it just meant that's what we came across first.

When you run dogs in packs a few of them will develop independence on their own, and the rest will become and remain me too dogs (I know you already know this or you wouldn't have asked or even known what a me too dog is). For those that don't know, a me too dog will run with the pack, make racket, and usually even bay or tree. The problem is that they are not tracking, they are just following the crowd. While they can help add pressure to help stop a hog or a bear, they don't contribute and actually get in the way when a track gets tough and the good dogs are trying to sort it out.

The best way to build independence in a dog is to hunt them by themselves. Ideally you have endless time and bear tracks to get them on so that they can learn to do it by themselves. For most that is just not reality. I always started my dogs out on coons. If a dog can track and tree a coon by itself it can track a bear even easier. A bear just leaves a lot more scent on the ground than coons. Once a dog can track and tree on their own they just need to learn to handle bear, and be in really good shape.

I wouldn't be a bit afraid to hunt them with your buddy's hounds this year as long as that is not all you do. I would get them the exposure to hunting bear and hunting with the other dogs. But I would also hunt them by themselves. You can bear/hog hunt them when you have the time off during the day to do that and you coon hunt them when you don't. Since there are a lot more coons out there than bears, and usually closer to home, you can get them a bunch of experience that way. It's also easier to find private land to run coons on year round vs private land big enough to run bear on (assuming you can run year round on private in GA or TN).

I also know guys that start their hound pups out at rabbit pens too. Rabbits are tough to learn to track and hounds usually loose interest in them naturally as they get older.

Hopefully some of the cur guys will jump on here and add or take away.

 

[Timberjack86]

Really good information!! I'm planning on coonhunting them when the roasting ears are ripe! I will run them a few times with my buddy's hounds during bear season. We always used coonhounds but just recently starting messing with the curs. I'm always impressed with Thier intelligence and willingness to please. I have really high hopes for these dogs but I'm also realistic. I remember alot of hound pups that just didn't have it. Anyway thanks for the response!!

 

[JayHay]

I do things a little different than most and I am in no way knocking anybody's methods. The old school hog dog mentality is run the pups with the old dogs and they'll learn, packing. Packing is how you end up with me too dogs. Don't get me wrong, packing is essential when you're in this game. However, if a person takes their time and is patient and puts forth effort into each individual dog, you will yield much better results. I do not pack my young dogs until its time for them to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. So for instance, when I'm starting a young dog, the first thing I focus on is building their hunt and prey drive. Then I imprint odor, then focus on tracking. Then focus on casting. During this time I'm leaving a pig hide at the end of the track which by this point they are already familiar with as it was an item used previously when working on their prey/hunt drives. Once I feel good about them casting, hunting for odor independently, locating odor and then tracking that odor to its source for several hundreds of yards, I then introduce them to a piglet in a cage. I let them bark and circle the cage for maybe a minute then I call them off and put them up, always leave them wanting more. From here I'll start putting the piglet in a cage at the end of the track, which eventually turns into the piglet being tied out at the end of the track. When I get to this point I trail in behind the dog so I can see how he reacts and what he does when he can actually get to this piglet, if he puts teeth on the pig or gets mouthy and all up on him I will tone him out and nick him if I have to. Then I'll leash him up and tease him, all of this is steadily building drive and desire which in return will make him hunt even harder. Once I get to this point I will then take the young dog out, I'll wait until I know that the dogs are on one and once they get him bayed I'll walk the young dog to the track about 100 yards from the bay and let him go. I'll do it this way a few times then I'll kick him out with the others from the start.
There's a lot of guys out there that will cull puppies saying they don't have drive or they don't have this or that, there is no way possible to determine what any dog has or doesn't until they're getting close to a year old, and that is one argument that I will jump into any day of the week. Dog training of any kind has to be done step by step so that when you recognize an issue there is something that you can take the dog back to and do again or reinforce, which is why I am not a fan of straight packing young dogs. If you've only packed a young dog and he's having some issues or is struggling, how are you gonna help him? What can you do to help? Old school answer is...cull. So whichever way you decide to go with your pups I hope my response helps.

 

[Timberjack86]

Just a little update, I've been laying scent trails with a bear paw for about 100 yards. At the end of the trail there is usually a nice little treat. So now when I turn them loose they are automatically hunting bear scent. So it's a start. My dad has a really good coon dog and I'm fixing to start hunting them separately with him. I'm focusing on getting them used to going hunting and knowing what is required of them when the tail gate drops. I'll probably Hunt them all summer until our bear training season starts in September. I'm going to hunt his coon dog on bears too. His dog is a kemmer cur and he is wanting to break him off squirrels in favor of bear.

 

[Hillbilly stalker]

I do things a little different than most and I am in no way knocking anybody's methods. The old school hog dog mentality is run the pups with the old dogs and they'll learn, packing. Packing is how you end up with me too dogs. Don't get me wrong, packing is essential when you're in this game. However, if a person takes their time and is patient and puts forth effort into each individual dog, you will yield much better results. I do not pack my young dogs until its time for them to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. So for instance, when I'm starting a young dog, the first thing I focus on is building their hunt and prey drive. Then I imprint odor, then focus on tracking. Then focus on casting. During this time I'm leaving a pig hide at the end of the track which by this point they are already familiar with as it was an item used previously when working on their prey/hunt drives. Once I feel good about them casting, hunting for odor independently, locating odor and then tracking that odor to its source for several hundreds of yards, I then introduce them to a piglet in a cage. I let them bark and circle the cage for maybe a minute then I call them off and put them up, always leave them wanting more. From here I'll start putting the piglet in a cage at the end of the track, which eventually turns into the piglet being tied out at the end of the track. When I get to this point I trail in behind the dog so I can see how he reacts and what he does when he can actually get to this piglet, if he puts teeth on the pig or gets mouthy and all up on him I will tone him out and nick him if I have to. Then I'll leash him up and tease him, all of this is steadily building drive and desire which in return will make him hunt even harder. Once I get to this point I will then take the young dog out, I'll wait until I know that the dogs are on one and once they get him bayed I'll walk the young dog to the track about 100 yards from the bay and let him go. I'll do it this way a few times then I'll kick him out with the others from the start.
There's a lot of guys out there that will cull puppies saying they don't have drive or they don't have this or that, there is no way possible to determine what any dog has or doesn't until they're getting close to a year old, and that is one argument that I will jump into any day of the week. Dog training of any kind has to be done step by step so that when you recognize an issue there is something that you can take the dog back to and do again or reinforce, which is why I am not a fan of straight packing young dogs. If you've only packed a young dog and he's having some issues or is struggling, how are you gonna help him? What can you do to help? Old school answer is...cull. So whichever way you decide to go with your pups I hope my response helps.

Good info ^^^ this is a dogman. Ive never met or talked to him. Training dogs is done in steps. Too many people keep them in a pen, turn them loose with the others around a year old...and then are disappointed when the dog knows or can do nothing. They cull or give them away. Dogs lean thru repetition no matter what the prey is. Good luck, you get out of a dog what you put into one.

 

[JayHay]

Just a little update, I've been laying scent trails with a bear paw for about 100 yards. At the end of the trail there is usually a nice little treat. So now when I turn them loose they are automatically hunting bear scent. So it's a start. My dad has a really good coon dog and I'm fixing to start hunting them separately with him. I'm focusing on getting them used to going hunting and knowing what is required of them when the tail gate drops. I'll probably Hunt them all summer until our bear training season starts in September. I'm going to hunt his coon dog on bears too. His dog is a kemmer cur and he is wanting to break him off squirrels in favor of bear.

Are you running them all together on mock tracks or by themselves? I would suggest laying 3 separate tracks so each dog can have his own to run independently. And you're calling them pups but how old are they?

 

[mallardsx2]

 

[Timberjack86]

Are you running them all together on mock tracks or by themselves? I would suggest laying 3 separate tracks so each dog can have his own to run independently. And you're calling them pups but how old are they?

I'm running them separate. On three separate tracks. They just turned 7 months old.