Are You Drinking Too Much?

[brian lancaster]

instead of trying to get on here and justify youre drinking how bout trying to mentor a teenager from drinking as it is totally out of control in this country and destroying people and there families. i personally dont wont to hear the bull of a grown man trying to justify in the eyes of men his drinking

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Not my words:

To answer before listening—
that is folly and shame.
Proverbs 18:13

I've said many times you should not be in a position to teach. You have stated and demonstrated many times you have a desire to do so. Although I took no offense in what you stated earlier, the Moderator warned you (correctly) that you were treading on thin ice regarding the personal insults. Instead of respecting that and being grateful you double down with this reply to him which is nothing more than another show of pride. To me that's just another indicator of your need to mature. Given your initiative, you would probably be effective as a teacher if you could actually ever lay aside your pride long enough to learn something. I'm not sure you are capable of it. You remind me of myself at one time, and I will tell you this based on my experience: The higher you hold yourself, the further it is to the bottom when you fall and the worse the pain is when you hit. Just something you may want to consider.

 

[strothershwacker]

Romans the 14th chapter.

 

[Israel]

Not all men who teach are presuming they are teacher of all.

Paul said "If I be not an apostle to others..." accepting that his ministry was to those to whom he was sent for their recognition as it was no less for his own.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Not all men who teach are presuming they are teacher of all.

Paul said "If I be not an apostle to others..." accepting that his ministry was to those to whom he was sent for their recognition as it was no less for his own.

And sometimes if it swims like a duck, is feathered like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, pretending it’s a hippopotamus doesn’t help the hippo or the duck.

I dunno. Maybe I’m so blind I can’t see how the blind leading the blind has any benefit.

 

[Artfuldodger]

With all the references in the Bible to wine, grape vines, vineyards, and communion, it's going to be hard to remove it all now through justification.

I just don't see why abstinence is litmus test for Christian living. Feeding and helping a stranger, yes but having a few glasses of wine, no.

Psalm 104:14–15 “You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth 15 and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.”

Ecclesiastes 9:7 “Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.”

Isaiah 62:8–9 “The Lord has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: “I will not again give your grain to be food for your enemies, and foreigners shall not drink your wine for which you have labored; but those who garner it shall eat it and praise the Lord, and those who gather it shall drink it in the courts of my sanctuary.”

 

[Spotlite]

Not all men who teach are presuming they are teacher of all.

Paul said "If I be not an apostle to others..." accepting that his ministry was to those to whom he was sent for their recognition as it was no less for his own.

Topics such as this one are often forgotten that a person has to have a personal conviction over it, so their enlightenment is thrown heavily at those who have yet to see. The Bible does not forbid taking a drink - it does speak against drunkenness.

At what point between a swallow and waisted is something each man has to deal with based on their own weaknesses when learning to live righteous, holy, etc.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think LittleDrummerBoy is a good preacher. I don't see his pride as being any greater than anyone else on this forum.

In fact I sometimes see the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Now don't get me wrong, half my family probably drink too much. More than a few are alcoholics. Also drug abuse is in my family. I know it's affects. Obesity too. Lack of exercise, for sure.

Let's suppose a wedding though, should I not serve wine because of my families alcohol problem? Can I really even stop or cause someone to drink too much or to use drugs? Can I ever stop someone from drugs or alcolhol. I've tried in the past and it never has worked.

How do we now perceive Drunkenness as a sin that could keep one out of the Kingdom now that we know it's a mental problem?

1 Corinthians 6:10
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Thank God for the washing!

 

[hummerpoo]

#4

[IMG]https://forum.gon.com/data/avatars/m/17/17814.jpg?1589136218[/IMG]
Israel
Senior Member
There's a point in this a man will find "too personal".

So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.

Just as this is too personal to the man in exposure by the plainness of which it is demonstrated:

Love one another as I have loved you.

Has anyone else ask themselves how anyone knows who, or if, these posts are giving offense to a brother.

 

[Israel]

Has anyone else ask themselves how anyone knows who, or if, these posts are giving offense to a brother.

I am not sure if by posts you mean the OP/thread origin...or those which follow.

I do believe there's a very tight spot of motive's sorting and sourcing that is addressed either in the closet, or will be by the assembly (some may prefer "an" assembly not willing to assign "the" except to the one they find of their preference) and lastly "in the world".

That "tight spot" through which entrance may be gained (we can discuss whether it is denied if peremptorily refused its acknowledgment) in which the man sees or confronts the matter of offense and his relationship to it. I don't know whether this matter is ever fully experienced (thanks be to God for the faith of His Son!) while in these bodies of humiliation, which is of course only to say, I yet have hope for it.

A man in whom I taste the utmost of restraint is, on that very principal matter of restraint...the One in whom I also sense the utmost of authority. This is the metric perhaps only delivered to rebels, or perhaps most singularly only to the chiefest of them, myself. But, I can't deny it. All others are free to recuse themselves. That I sense more power demonstrated by the power of restraint may well be one such singular gift found in salvation granted a bull in a china shop.

That "tight" place led to of this confrontation is remarkably stark. All things there bear equal contrast in both light and weight. It is where it is recognized that a man may be called to bear/carry/express what he either knows is of offense and/or just as surely surmises will be, in equal knowing that there's a stark forbidding of any desire to "give" offense. God does not indulge our gotcha propensities. Grace may forgive them, but they are not indulged.

There's a threshing on the way (better to say has been on "my way"?) to the apprehending of "When a man's ways please the Lord He causes even his enemies to be at peace with him".

Part of the threshing has accomplished by exposure a thing once hidden. I want an enemy. I want to fight. I want to oppose. I want to win and conquer. I have had a need to push against, to look for and distill to a manageable and manifest thing around which throat I can finally wrap my hands and throttle to a final vanquishing. The thing is...everything else is bigger than me.

I met myself in a dark alley once...

 

[hummerpoo]

I am not sure if by posts you mean the OP/thread origin...or those which follow.

I do believe there's a very tight spot of motive's sorting and sourcing that is addressed either in the closet, or will be by the assembly (some may prefer "an" assembly not willing to assign "the" except to the one they find of their preference) and lastly "in the world".

That "tight spot" through which entrance may be gained (we can discuss whether it is denied if peremptorily refused its acknowledgment) in which the man sees or confronts the matter of offense and his relationship to it. I don't know whether this matter is ever fully experienced (thanks be to God for the faith of His Son!) while in these bodies of humiliation, which is of course only to say, I yet have hope for it.

A man in whom I taste the utmost of restraint is, on that very principal matter of restraint...the One in whom I also sense the utmost of authority. This is the metric perhaps only delivered to rebels, or perhaps most singularly only to the chiefest of them, myself. But, I can't deny it. All others are free to recuse themselves. That I sense more power demonstrated by the power of restraint may well be one such singular gift found in salvation granted a bull in a china shop.

That "tight" place led to of this confrontation is remarkably stark. All things there bear equal contrast in both light and weight. It is where it is recognized that a man may be called to bear/carry/express what he either knows is of offense and/or just as surely surmises will be, in equal knowing that there's a stark forbidding of any desire to "give" offense. God does not indulge our gotcha propensities. Grace may forgive them, but they are not indulged.

There's a threshing on the way (better to say has been on "my way"?) to the apprehending of "When a man's ways please the Lord He causes even his enemies to be at peace with him".

Part of the threshing has accomplished by exposure a thing once hidden. I want an enemy. I want to fight. I want to oppose. I want to win and conquer. I have had a need to push against, to look for and distill to a manageable and manifest thing around which throat I can finally wrap my hands and throttle to a final vanquishing. The thing is...everything else is bigger than me.

I met myself in a dark alley once...

I am not sure if by posts you mean the OP/thread origin...or those which follow.

In starting to respond to your post I was going to first clarify that I had no intent to include each and every post in the thread nor to exclude any specific post. However, I decided that even that would not be fair unless I first reviewed the thread. When I almost immediately encountered the pejorative use of "Pharisees" follow closely by reference to attempted forced legalism I decided to just ignore the thread with regret of ever posted on it.

 

[Israel]

In starting to respond to your post I was going to first clarify that I had no intent to include each and every post in the thread nor to exclude any specific post. However, I decided that even that would not be fair unless I first reviewed the thread. When I almost immediately encountered the pejorative use of "Pharisees" follow closely by reference to attempted forced legalism I decided to just ignore the thread with regret of ever posted on it.

Thank you for responding. Your previous question I cannot blame for my long windedness, but I will say it's surely thought provoking.

Gem wrote elsewhere that "Nothing is more offensive to the flesh than a Theocentric mind." And I don't believe we'd find much argument amongst ourselves that Jesus Christ possesses that single eye of intent, with intent.

So, to me at least, (with apologies for the "So") conscription here includes some form of surrender? resignation? happy acknowledgment? that (like it or not) a man will at times be recognized as offensive (even to himself!)...and perhaps even especially so.

But that is a different matter than merely coming to enjoy (and I can testify a man can find some pleasure in) assuming a role as provocateur. But I can also testify that "wears thin" and unable to satisfy the soul. The not fearing of being an outcast does not of necessity mean one should seek it at every turn....lest a man find himself so singularly given to it he discovers he is not moving in any boldness, but merely a spite to provoke the opprobrium of man he finds himself able to bear.

Do you know what I mean? I believe you do.

It's really not very hard to fall in love with a self image as stoic "rebel", (particularly a man such as myself) but only God is able to wean.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I know I wouldnt want to try to witness to a lost person with the smell of alcohol on my breath

I would think a wine tasting event or a beer garden atmosphere would be the perfect place for a Church or Christian group to have a booth and witness.
People only have this "Den of Iniquity" image. True those places do serve alcohol. So does a wedding feast, a Cruise Line, a family camp out or BBQ, etc.

I'm thinking of Paulk Vineyards in Coffee County. If you open their link they have a Bible verse. Not that that means anything, just saying it's a nice wholesome atmosphere. They don't have a Hoochie Coochie Show.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I am not sure if by posts you mean the OP/thread origin...or those which follow.

I do believe there's a very tight spot of motive's sorting and sourcing that is addressed either in the closet, or will be by the assembly (some may prefer "an" assembly not willing to assign "the" except to the one they find of their preference) and lastly "in the world".

That "tight spot" through which entrance may be gained (we can discuss whether it is denied if peremptorily refused its acknowledgment) in which the man sees or confronts the matter of offense and his relationship to it. I don't know whether this matter is ever fully experienced (thanks be to God for the faith of His Son!) while in these bodies of humiliation, which is of course only to say, I yet have hope for it.

A man in whom I taste the utmost of restraint is, on that very principal matter of restraint...the One in whom I also sense the utmost of authority. This is the metric perhaps only delivered to rebels, or perhaps most singularly only to the chiefest of them, myself. But, I can't deny it. All others are free to recuse themselves. That I sense more power demonstrated by the power of restraint may well be one such singular gift found in salvation granted a bull in a china shop.

That "tight" place led to of this confrontation is remarkably stark. All things there bear equal contrast in both light and weight. It is where it is recognized that a man may be called to bear/carry/express what he either knows is of offense and/or just as surely surmises will be, in equal knowing that there's a stark forbidding of any desire to "give" offense. God does not indulge our gotcha propensities. Grace may forgive them, but they are not indulged.

There's a threshing on the way (better to say has been on "my way"?) to the apprehending of "When a man's ways please the Lord He causes even his enemies to be at peace with him".

Part of the threshing has accomplished by exposure a thing once hidden. I want an enemy. I want to fight. I want to oppose. I want to win and conquer. I have had a need to push against, to look for and distill to a manageable and manifest thing around which throat I can finally wrap my hands and throttle to a final vanquishing. The thing is...everything else is bigger than me.

I met myself in a dark alley once...

Either way. Then again couldn't a post about the Trinity vs Oneness?

 

[Israel]

Either way. Then again couldn't a post about the Trinity vs Oneness?

Do you mean "be found offending" to some by positions stated?

 

[Artfuldodger]

If I go to a sinners house to witness and he is a drunkard, fornicator, of gambler. Should I tell him to stop or just try and lead him to Christ or Christ to him?
What I'm getting at is why not let's get him saved or lead to that salvation, then let the Holy Spirit work on changing him.

Is that changing really our goal or is that between that individual and God?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Do you mean "be found offending" to some by positions stated?

Just meaning if a brother found this thread offending, he may find a thread on almost anything offending.

I thought some of the responses may have offended a brother but maybe not. Maybe it's a fine line between teaching and offending. I'm sure I've offended by teaching before.

I once told my grown daughter she was a finagler. She got offended but I meant it in a positive way. I didn't realize that it was always a negative word.
I've actually never found a word for a positive finagler. Resourceful maybe?

We seem to have lost a couple, I hope neither see it that way long term. Maybe we all need to be less brash and hostile.

 

[Israel]

Just meaning if a brother found this thread offending, he may find a thread on almost anything offending.

I thought some of the post may have offended a brother but maybe not. Maybe it's a fine line between teaching and offending. I'm sure I've offended by teaching before.

I once told my grown daughter she was a finagler. She got offended but I meant it in a positive way. I didn't realize that it was always a negative word.
I've actually never found a word for a positive finagler. Resourceful maybe?

Remember when Paul said "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

The plumbline is always at hand...even at the door...to disclose if a thing is "the truth spoken in love", a thing merely to draw attention and/or be provocative or just a lunatic's rant.

Obviously (to me) Paul was willing to have his love measured against what he said to "them". Yeah...it's a place so tight only Jesus fit through...to be willing to be made such an offense but not for the sake of stumbling (even though it would surely occur!) but for salvation.

We get led to that very place...and there begin to discover the necessity of Jesus' accompanying us. How we cannot do without Him! For we are left in a strait no man can navigate himself.

"Offenses must come...but woe to the man through whom they come" Jesus says.
(There can be no avoiding of offenses coming!)

No less does the Spirit express: "Now we all offend in many ways..." (making it even more personal!)

There is only one "safe" offense...that which provides salvation at the most perfectly personal measure of love...and we get winnowed on the way. But...that is because the Lord would not have us miss just how personally...and perfectly we ourselves are loved.
That "new" commandment "Love one another as I have loved you..." leads to an inexhaustible and eternal mining of the one before the other can be "done" or shown.


And no man has ever been sorry for being conscripted to this adventure in exploration...to learn just how much he has been loved by the Lord. And how much the Lord has borne both "for that man"...and no less from that man in patience to show.

And yeah...for the most part kids have little notion (and are not expected to) just how much they are loved...because a "good" parent makes no issue of it...their sacrifice that the child might be care free. Warm bed, dry roof, meals, and a welcoming hearth to call home. But the simple act of "growing up" reveals often what the parent would be loathe to burden a child with. The things done "out of sight" (my dad never dragged me to work daily to make sure I knew how hard he labored..."for me"...did yours?)

So we find out eventually about all things done unbeknownst to us, done even in the "before" as provision for us (Lamb slain from the foundation...) according to a perfect foreknowledge without which none would know being.

We are to be "waking up" to a being so secure in this foreknowledge that we may say, as I do indeed hope your daughter will (if she hasn't already) "Oh, Father, I had no idea...but thank you for your love in bringing me to this hour".

 

[gemcgrew]

I place no more confidence in my abstinence... than I do in my excess.