Are You Drinking Too Much?

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Interpretation of Scripture can be flawed. Your explanation of it is the Classical liberal theology argument. Since you like slippery slopes, the conclusion of that argument is that Scripture is non-authorative because our interpretation may be flawed.
facepalm:

Your explanation of it is the Classical liberal theology argument.

You mean like this:

Pope endorses civil union laws for same-sex couples


https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/europe/pope-gay-couples-civil-union-intl/index.html

Whacha wanna bet he can cite scripture to support his position. He is the Pope after all.
 
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Ray357

AWOL

LittleDrummerBoy

Senior Member
Define moderation. Pretty much every alcoholic I know says their drinking started "in moderation" and went something along the lines of
1 then
1,2 then
1,2,3 then
1,2,3,4 then
1,2,10 then
1, oblivion.

This pattern is common to many areas of addiction and excess - prescription drugs, weed, food, sex, computer games, gambling, watching TV, etc. By what criteria do we assign behaviors where addiction occurs into to the categories:
1) A sin even in moderation
2) Not a sin in moderation, but be careful

The Lord may lead individuals to refrain from alcohol completely as in the case of the Nazarites, Sampson, and John the Baptist. The Lord may also give people dietary limitations, as shown in Scripture. In other cases, the Lord may give a calling and gifting for celibacy. These are matters of individual conviction. Your faith, conscience, and convictions may put any behavior or action into category 1 (a sin even in moderation) for YOU. But your faith, conscience, and convictions don't put the same behavior into category 1 for others.

There's can be wisdom in refraining from alcohol, prescription drugs, computer games, gambling, TV, etc. But there is also a lot of wisdom in taking due care to distinguish between matters of righteousness (sin) and matters of wisdom, especially when communicating with others where their boundaries should be. Sticking to boundaries clearly articulated in Scripture gives the Holy Spirit room to work, and the Holy Spirit tends to work in different people in different ways bringing different disciplines at different times. Attempts to impose extra-Biblical rules on others are most often works of the flesh.

I've spoken with lots of rednecks over the past 18 months, and three extra-Biblical rules are a significant hindrance to their interest in church attendance:
a) Prohibition of alcohol
b) Required church attendance
c) Required tithing 10%

We shouldn't be putting these stumbling blocks in people's way.

 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
If you will notice, I'm not arguing that scripture is in error, but people's interpretation of it. Big difference. People become dogmatic that scripture is the final authority, when what they are really saying is that their understanding of scripture is the final authority. It's not, but the same mentality was used to crucify Christ, justify the slaughter of people down through the ages and pretty much any other atrocity committed in the name of Christ. What's the common denominator: people being led by pride in their reading comprehension instead of their humility by the Holy Spirit.

Also I am not arguing that alcohol is forbidden by scripture. It most certainly is not. What I'm arguing is that alcohol can be and is destructive and for anyone, even a Non-Christian, to come out and make the blanket statement that it's OK in moderation(whatever that is) is wrong-headed. Even an atheist who couldn't hit his butt with both hands tied behind his back knows better.



Define moderation. Pretty much every alcoholic I know says their drinking started "in moderation" and went something along the lines of
1 then
1,2 then
1,2,3 then
1,2,3,4 then
1,2,10 then
1, oblivion.

So to answer your question. Is alcohol in moderation destructive behavior? If I take that to mean 1 at communion, another 1 or 2 at a wedding, 1 at Christmas, then No. Listening to the video in the thread starter that was broadcast to the public, you tell me if that's what most take his meaning of "moderation" to mean? Furthermore do you think that's how he mean it, or instead as social drinking? I would argue if it was meant in the former context there would be no point in addressing it to start with as the whole notion would be absurd. It would be akin to a "sermon" on "Is eating birthday cake a sin?" Given he's addressed the issues of Are you fishing too much?, Are you eating too much?, Are you drinking too much?, Is your wife spending too much money? etc. that may be next. Who knows? Apparently the subject of these sermons are only limited by his ability to apply his interpretation of scripture to others and their perceived problems. There hasn't been one yet that was entitled "Am I ________________ too much?" His magnifying glass only looks outward, not reflecting inward. What's the difference? It's the difference between pride and humility, comprehension and wisdom, hypocrisy and self-application, and alienation as opposed to compassion. There's an old adage that goes something along the lines of "Don't point out, but instead identify with."
Moderation - If you were letting the Holy Spirit lead you on this topic - you’d quickly and surprisingly understand that there’s no one size fits all in anything you mentioned above. My wife spent $20 on lunch, Donald Trumps wife probably has spent $100 on a lunch. Who spent too much??

That’s why it was very important to point out the fact that it’s an individual issue based on his convictions, weaknesses and temptations.

Since there are zero scriptures that forbid alcohol (unless you finally found one) there’s absolutely nothing else for YOU to hang YOUR hat on other than YOUR convictions.

This is a problem for the church - they want to do God’s work. Just go find the people, Let God clean them up the way he sees fit. He will do that through men he’s called to teach and preach.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
What I'm arguing is that alcohol can be and is destructive and for anyone
Both are true - It can be. And, it is destructive. But it’s dependent on more than the swallow.

The debate hasn’t been about the potential destruction - it has been about “sin”. You stated this: “Knowing that alcohol has the potential to destroy you, not to mention your spiritual walk with God, and then choosing to drink is a sin before you ever put that drink to your lips”

I think what some, including myself, are arguing is what is the point between it can be destructive, and it is? Who decides that? Now, based on your statement - a Coke is sin, because it has the potential to destroy you. BTW - social media and even this forum can be destructive to your family (depending on how much screen time you put in) so are we sinners because they have the potential??
 
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SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
This pattern is common to many areas of addiction and excess - prescription drugs, weed, food, sex, computer games, gambling, watching TV, etc. By what criteria do we assign behaviors where addiction occurs into to the categories:
1) A sin even in moderation
2) Not a sin in moderation, but be careful

The Lord may lead individuals to refrain from alcohol completely as in the case of the Nazarites, Sampson, and John the Baptist. The Lord may also give people dietary limitations, as shown in Scripture. In other cases, the Lord may give a calling and gifting for celibacy. These are matters of individual conviction. Your faith, conscience, and convictions may put any behavior or action into category 1 (a sin even in moderation) for YOU. But your faith, conscience, and convictions don't put the same behavior into category 1 for others.

There's can be wisdom in refraining from alcohol, prescription drugs, computer games, gambling, TV, etc. But there is also a lot of wisdom in taking due care to distinguish between matters of righteousness (sin) and matters of wisdom, especially when communicating with others where their boundaries should be. Sticking to boundaries clearly articulated in Scripture gives the Holy Spirit room to work, and the Holy Spirit tends to work in different people in different ways bringing different disciplines at different times. Attempts to impose extra-Biblical rules on others are most often works of the flesh.

I've spoken with lots of rednecks over the past 18 months, and three extra-Biblical rules are a significant hindrance to their interest in church attendance:
a) Prohibition of alcohol
b) Required church attendance
c) Required tithing 10%

We shouldn't be putting these stumbling blocks in people's way.


I've spoken with lots of rednecks over the past 18 months, and three extra-Biblical rules are a significant hindrance to their interest in church attendance:
a) Prohibition of alcohol
b) Required church attendance
c) Required tithing 10%

We shouldn't be putting these stumbling blocks in people's way.

LDB, I can name perhaps the two biggest that didn't even make your list. They are on the front of EVERYONE'S mind especially our young people, be they rednecks or not.

a)Prohibition of sex outside of marriage IN ANY FORM
b)Prohibition of same sex relationships

Society's question to the Church is the same as it is for social drinking, "What is wrong with engaging in this if it doesn't hurt anyone and all parties are consenting?" It's a question the Church has not been able to answer.

The answer is this: It does hurt you. In fact it destroys the person from the inside out. With the very first act it destroys our spiritual relationship with God. Then it destroys our soul by eating away at our dignity, integrity, self-worth, sanctity. With our relationship with God severed, there is no regeneration of our soul and no hope, only despair. For some this is a gradual process, for others it's fast. (I think of the 5 fold difference in suicide rate between homosexual and heterosexuals) Lastly it destroys the person physically, but because the physical destruction is last and is the only visible evidence others can see, they don't attribute it to the sin. It's akin to a slow growing cancer cell that starts inside the body, metastasizes throughout the body and only in the last stage is the tumor visible. People see the tumor and attribute the death to it, not realizing it is only a visible sign of a process that has been years or decades in the making.

That's why social drinking, sex outside of marriage, porn, same sex relationships, etc. are sins....because they destroy our spiritual relationship with God. THAT relationship is the ONLY thing that not only keeps us alive and sustains us, but in and of itself, is actually the only thing that is GOOD for us in this entire universe. When you give weight to the notion that any of that in moderation is OK, in any way, you are condoning others to engage in spiritually destructive behavior of the sole, life giving resource we have available: a healthy spiritual relationship with God.

From your statement above regarding your questioning of Rednecks regarding their hindrances to church attendance, and other past posts, I sense this is where your focus is. I will just say this and leave it for you to digest, but if we don't teach people the truth; that the only way to find Peace and Life in this life and the next, is through establishing a living relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ, and then cherishing and nourishing that relationship all day, everyday, through our utmost ability in word and deed, then the only thing you are doing is moving corpses from outside to inside the church. Whatever stumbling block they had outside will be a stumbling block inside.

The Living selfishly want to nourish that relationship and will do anything to grow it. They won't want to do anything that could even conceivably damage it. They won't want to drink. They won't want sex outside of marriage. Their tithing will never be enough to suit them. They will cherish the opportunity to not only go to church, but serve in it any way they can. They will come to realize that their relationship with God is the ONLY aspect of life where they can let their selfishness desire run rabid. They realize they don't need a shift in rules, they have experienced a paradigm shift that has made the rules obsolete. That's what we need to be addressing. We aren't tasked with addressing rules, but sharing a LIFE and PEACE on a scale others can't fathom. Hardly can I, but it's there none-the-less, for the asking. That's the message we carry.
 
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SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Moderation - If you were letting the Holy Spirit lead you on this topic - you’d quickly and surprisingly understand that there’s no one size fits all in anything you mentioned above. My wife spent $20 on lunch, Donald Trumps wife probably has spent $100 on a lunch. Who spent too much??

That’s why it was very important to point out the fact that it’s an individual issue based on his convictions, weaknesses and temptations.

Since there are zero scriptures that forbid alcohol (unless you finally found one) there’s absolutely nothing else for YOU to hang YOUR hat on other than YOUR convictions.

This is a problem for the church - they want to do God’s work. Just go find the people, Let God clean them up the way he sees fit. He will do that through men he’s called to teach and preach.

Would you feel the same if your wife or child said they had "no conviction" about sex outside of marriage? If it's the "principal of conviction", that's a dangerous concept to hang your hat on. An extreme I know, but a lot of cold blooded killers have no conviction about killing. You better look to something higher than conviction for guidance.

Since there are zero scriptures that forbid alcohol (unless you finally found one) there’s absolutely nothing else for YOU to hang YOUR hat on other than YOUR convictions.

Well if you want to hang you hat on scripture and be legalistic about it there's no scripture that forbids snorting cocaine off a strippers butt either. My point is again, there's a higher calling. I suggest it's framed by this concept:
"Does this action have even the slightest potential to damage my relationship with Christ?"
If I struggle I think I may can make a case for that concept with scripture. If you can think of a better one I'm all ears, but I think it sufficiently answers your question,

I think what some, including myself, are arguing is what is the point between it can be destructive, and it is? Who decides that?

and maybe even this critique.

Moderation - If you were letting the Holy Spirit lead you on this topic - you’d quickly and surprisingly understand that there’s no one size fits all in anything you mentioned above.
.
 
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Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Would you feel the same if your wife or child said they had "no conviction" about sex outside of marriage? If it's the "principal of conviction", that's a dangerous concept to hang your hat on. An extreme I know, but a lot of cold blooded killers have no conviction about killing. You better look to something higher than conviction for guidance.



Well if you want to hang you hat on scripture and be legalistic about it there's no scripture that forbids snorting cocaine off a strippers butt either. My point is again, there's a higher calling. I suggest it's framed by this concept:

If I struggle I think I may can make a case for that concept with scripture. If you can think of a better one I'm all ears, but I think it sufficiently answers your question,



and maybe even this critique.

.

I’m not sure you understand the true concept of conviction.

But, sex outside of marriage is either fornication or adultery. Scripture explicitly forbids both. The sin is committing those acts. Conviction is feeling guilty for committing those acts. A seared conscience doesn’t feel any guilt.

So, if you feel guilty about something that’s either explicitly forbidden or not, it’s because your convicted of it.

Cocaine is illegal. You’re to obey the laws of the land - that’s also scripture. No interpretation or fancy Greek words to consider.
For the record, legalism basically means you deciding that taking a drink is sin........for everyone - because you feel it is.

So, no Sir, you haven’t answered my question.
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I’m not sure you understand the true concept of conviction.

But, sex outside of marriage is either fornication or adultery. Scripture explicitly forbids both. The sin is committing those acts. Conviction is feeling guilty for committing those acts. A seared conscience doesn’t feel any guilt.

So, if you feel guilty about something that’s either explicitly forbidden or not, it’s because your convicted of it.

Cocaine is illegal. You’re to obey the laws of the land - that’s also scripture. No interpretation or fancy Greek words to consider.
For the record, legalism basically means you deciding that taking a drink is sin........for everyone - because you feel it is.

So, no Sir, you haven’t answered my question.

Then I don't think I can.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Then I don't think I can.
You did for yourself. I have no argument there. The Bible doesn’t forbid alcohol. The Bible doesn’t forbid artificial sweeteners either. The Bible does tell you not to harm your body. So why is Coke Zero ok and alcohol sin?

I pulled the following from an article.

“The health effects of artificial sweeteners are controversial, and concern regarding their safety is growing (2Trusted Source).
Though the research is inconsistent, some studies find that the use of artificial sweeteners may contribute to the development of obesity and metabolic syndrome, a cluster of conditions that increase disease risk (3Trusted Source, 4Trusted Source, 5Trusted Source).”
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
You did for yourself. I have no argument there. The Bible doesn’t forbid alcohol. The Bible doesn’t forbid artificial sweeteners either. The Bible does tell you not to harm your body. So why is Coke Zero ok and alcohol sin?

I pulled the following from an article.

“The health effects of artificial sweeteners are controversial, and concern regarding their safety is growing (2Trusted Source).
Though the research is inconsistent, some studies find that the use of artificial sweeteners may contribute to the development of obesity and metabolic syndrome, a cluster of conditions that increase disease risk (3Trusted Source, 4Trusted Source, 5Trusted Source).”

My friend, I don't think I can make you see, help you to understand, that there's a higher life available to you that will exceed even the best life you have ever envisioned, give you more peace than you could have dreamed possible and free you from worrying about the do's and don'ts of scripture. That fact frustrates me to no end. God is a living God. You are a living being created in his image. It is the nature of beings to form relationships with each other. That relationship is where the "life" is. Scripture speaks of it. In fact, it is the sole purpose of scripture, to testify to the living, breathing relationship available to us with God. That said, multitudes form a relationship with scripture itself, make it their god and think they have found the "life."
They have undoubtedly found a better way of living to the extent that they are able to keep it's statutes, but it's not "life". Sadly, most will sooner or later wind up feeling "less than", because they will come to realize they can't attain or maintain the standard.
Many will abandon "the faith" or "the church" out of frustration and deem religion or God as "found wanting", when in fact it was their understanding that was misguided. Had they placed their effort into establishing a relationship with God as they would a potential candidate for marriage, based on two-way communication and doing what's best for the relationship, the outcome would have been much different.

You can find a woman you are interested in, find out everything there is to know about her likes and dislikes and become a master at doing those things, but until you engage with her, come to know her personally, trust her completely, and commit your life to building, maintaining and protecting that relationship with her continually, you don't have a life with her. You don't even KNOW her. You just know ABOUT her. You are just living up to your image of her from what you have gathered about her. And as for her, she doesn't even know you exist, because there's no relationship. I don't know any other way to put it. If you were to actually come face to face with her some day it would truly result in a ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.' moment.


That pertains to the subject of this thread in exactly the way I have repeatedly stated.
If one has a relationship with God that he/she cherishes, they will not even entertain the thought of doing anything that could even potentially jeopardize that relationship. That would include drinking, because the risk, any risk, doesn't justify the potential damage to the relationship. Whether it's forbidden or allowed is a moot point. The relationship is held that sacred. People with this type of relationship will understand. People without it won't, and they may never because they are more focused on finding out ABOUT God than finding a relationship WITH God.

I literally have nothing else I can say on this. I'm incapable of making it any simpler to understand.
 

brian lancaster

Senior Member
This pattern is common to many areas of addiction and excess - prescription drugs, weed, food, sex, computer games, gambling, watching TV, etc. By what criteria do we assign behaviors where addiction occurs into to the categories:
1) A sin even in moderation
2) Not a sin in moderation, but be careful

The Lord may lead individuals to refrain from alcohol completely as in the case of the Nazarites, Sampson, and John the Baptist. The Lord may also give people dietary limitations, as shown in Scripture. In other cases, the Lord may give a calling and gifting for celibacy. These are matters of individual conviction. Your faith, conscience, and convictions may put any behavior or action into category 1 (a sin even in moderation) for YOU. But your faith, conscience, and convictions don't put the same behavior into category 1 for others.

There's can be wisdom in refraining from alcohol, prescription drugs, computer games, gambling, TV, etc. But there is also a lot of wisdom in taking due care to distinguish between matters of righteousness (sin) and matters of wisdom, especially when communicating with others where their boundaries should be. Sticking to boundaries clearly articulated in Scripture gives the Holy Spirit room to work, and the Holy Spirit tends to work in different people in different ways bringing different disciplines at different times. Attempts to impose extra-Biblical rules on others are most often works of the flesh.

I've spoken with lots of rednecks over the past 18 months, and three extra-Biblical rules are a significant hindrance to their interest in church attendance:
a) Prohibition of alcohol
b) Required church attendance
c) Required tithing 10%

We shouldn't be putting these stumbling blocks in people's way.

ive never heard a so called preacher argue if its ok to indulge in alcohol, you sound like the pope and the liberal democrats of the usa . shame on you
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
My friend, I don't think I can make you see, help you to understand
Bingo. Point made. Remember, basically, I said it’s an individual issue as God deals with them??? What does the rest of that have to do with you determining which is sin for others between two given examples of things that have the potential to be destructive either physically, mentally or both and neither are explicitly forbidden?? You do realize that the ideology of making things a sin for others is deeper than taking a drink?? Ever been told it’s a sin to have a tv in the house?? A Christmas tree???
My friend, I don't think I can make you see, help you to understand, that there's a higher life available to you that will exceed even the best life you have ever envisioned, give you more peace than you could have dreamed possible and free you from worrying about the do's and don'ts of scripture. That fact frustrates me to no end. God is a living God. You are a living being created in his image. It is the nature of beings to form relationships with each other. That relationship is where the "life" is. Scripture speaks of it. In fact, it is the sole purpose of scripture, to testify to the living, breathing relationship available to us with God. That said, multitudes form a relationship with scripture itself, make it their god and think they have found the "life."
They have undoubtedly found a better way of living to the extent that they are able to keep it's statutes, but it's not "life". Sadly, most will sooner or later wind up feeling "less than", because they will come to realize they can't attain or maintain the standard.
Many will abandon "the faith" or "the church" out of frustration and deem religion or God as "found wanting", when in fact it was their understanding that was misguided. Had they placed their effort into establishing a relationship with God as they would a potential candidate for marriage, based on two-way communication and doing what's best for the relationship, the outcome would have been much different.

You can find a woman you are interested in, find out everything there is to know about her likes and dislikes and become a master at doing those things, but until you engage with her, come to know her personally, trust her completely, and commit your life to building, maintaining and protecting that relationship with her continually, you don't have a life with her. You don't even KNOW her. You just know ABOUT her. You are just living up to your image of her from what you have gathered about her. And as for her, she doesn't even know you exist, because there's no relationship. I don't know any other way to put it. If you were to actually come face to face with her some day it would truly result in a ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.' moment.


That pertains to the subject of this thread in exactly the way I have repeatedly stated.
1. If one has a relationship with God that he/she cherishes, they will not even entertain the thought of doing anything that could even potentially jeopardize that relationship. 2. That would include drinking, because the risk, any risk, doesn't justify the potential damage to the relationship. Whether it's forbidden or allowed is a moot point. The relationship is held that sacred. People with this type of relationship will understand. People without it won't, and they may never because they are more focused on finding out ABOUT God than finding a relationship WITH God.

I literally have nothing else I can say on this. I'm incapable of making it any simpler to understand.
1 - While I agree with you, it’s not up to you to determine which potential risks will jeopardize another mans relationship with God. 2 - it’s disheartening to hear folks condemn one potentially destructive action and condone another - remember artificial sweetener verses alcohol? I realize some are just big boned and might have thyroid issues, but when a man has 5 pieces of chicken on his plate after the third trip to the buffet, I have issue with a Glutton telling me that my Christmas tree is a sin.

Finally, I never justified drinking. I only wanted to know how you came to the determination that it was sin for everyone based on a “potential” without all the other - the other is how arrived at that point for YOU.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
1 - a higher life available to you that will exceed even the best life you have ever envisioned, give you more peace than you could have dreamed possible and free you from worrying about the do's and don'ts..............2 - That would include drinking, because the risk, any risk, doesn't justify the potential damage to the relationship. Whether it's forbidden or allowed is a moot point.

1. Trust me, I’m definitely at peace. I’m definitely free from worrying about the do’s and dont’s. I’m not bound to the condemnation and yokes of others. 2. That’s contradicting Romans 14.

Where you keep failing to address my argument is only two areas - 1, how did you determine what is a potential damage for another man and 2, how do you decide which is sin and which is acceptable between the two things I previously used as examples?

I can agree with you 100% until it comes to this statement by you - “Knowing that alcohol has the potential to destroy you, not to mention your spiritual walk with God, and then choosing to drink is a sin before you ever put that drink to your lips”

After reading Romans 14, do you see the issue in red if you say it’s sin for anyone besides yourself?
 
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Israel

BANNED
If one does, why does anyone trust Paul's opinion on anything?
 

Israel

BANNED
Why would you not?

In the broadest sense because I do not find all opinions trustworthy. Or perhaps better said, worthy of investing my trust in. But if I do trust Paul's, and any other does likewise, on what basis?
 
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Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
In the broadest sense because I do not find all opinions trustworthy. Or perhaps better said, worthy of investing my trust in. But if I do trust Paul's, and any other dose likewise, on what basis?
Writing God’s Word seems pretty trustworthy to me.

But, Paul had the attitude of “I wish that all men were as I am”. Paul is credited for writing Romans. Romans 14 in particular for the topic of this thread - Paul neither condemned nor condoned there.


To blatantly state “this is sin” when scripture doesn’t forbid it, I can still respect the opinion, but turn a deaf ear to the condemnation.
 
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LittleDrummerBoy

Senior Member
ive never heard a so called preacher argue if its ok to indulge in alcohol, you sound like the pope and the liberal democrats of the usa . shame on you

I give you back your shame. Scripture tells us "do not go beyond what is written." Surely, the Holy Spirit can bring conviction about anything, but when carrying out the Great Commission, I exercise due care not to put unnecessary "stumbling blocks" in people's way to grow closer to Jesus. (Romans 14:13)

The Bible gives testimony to a number of preachers/teachers/prophets/priests who either explicitly approved of, provided examples of, or refused to describe as sin the use of alcohol in moderation (and sometimes more than that). A few examples are: Noah, Melchizedek, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Nehemiah, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Joel, Amos, Zechariah, Jesus, and Paul. Do you plan on trying to add your shame to their good names and reputations?

There are a small number of men in Scripture who refrained from alcohol, but in every case, they understood it as a personal discipline for their specific ministries rather than as a broad prohibition. There are no preachers in Scripture ever recorded as preaching, teaching, or proclaiming a broad prohibition on alcohol.
 
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