Baptism was for Israel and ended with Grace Dispensation?

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

In the new dispensation water baptism was to give way to the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the baptizer and he baptizes believers into the Body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:13. It is an operation of God, not man. Water baptism was for Israel, and it is going to go out with Israel as the Nation is set aside. The commissions were also set aside, they included among other things, water baptism.

http://members.peak.org/~albimb/pg01.html
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Paul also spoke in tongues, cast demons out, worked miracles and healings. All of these signs disappeared by the end of his ministry. Why? These signs belong to the program of the kingdom for Israel (1 Corinthians 1:22, etc.) and were fading away (1 Corinthians 13:8-10). By the end of Paul’s life, the whole mystery was revealed to him (Colossians 1:25-26), and the requirements under this dispensation of grace excluded these signs, miracles and wonders, as well as the requirements under the Law; of which water baptism was one (Hebrews 9:8-14).

http://www.midactstruths.com/2009/04/05/understanding-baptism-in-this-dispensation-of-grace/
 

LittleDrummerBoy

Senior Member
"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..."
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..."
But what the link stated was that ended with Paul. Weird though that if it was for the Jews, why would it say "all nations?"

The Great Commission was before Paul's revelation to spread the gospel to the Gentiles.
If Paul received his authority from Christ to preach the Grace of Christ to the Gentiles, under the Great Commission, then why did he declare that he received it by revelation and went up to Jerusalem by revelation to communicate it to other disciples and apostles?

"all nations" my have meant the Jews. I'm not sure or agreeing, just looking into the matter.

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-great-commission-3/
 
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Artfuldodger

Senior Member
If you look at all of what accompanied the Great Commission, it also includes driving out demons, speaking in tongues, picking up serpents.
 

LittleDrummerBoy

Senior Member
"All nations" means exactly what it says - all nations.

Gentiles who responded to Paul's preaching were baptized, and Paul himself baptized some believers in Corinth, though the job of baptism was more commonly delegated to others.

Baptism is an instruction of Scripture. Believers who neglect it do so at their peril.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
God had sent John the Baptizer to baptize and Jesus sent the twelve apostles to baptize. But Paul made it clear that Jesus had not sent him to baptize. Paul does not command us to baptize either. Why? Why indeed if we are under the “Great Commission” that Jesus gave to His apostles? The answer again is that we are under a different commission.

https://doctrine.org/the-great-commission
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
"All nations" means exactly what it says - all nations.

Gentiles who responded to Paul's preaching were baptized, and Paul himself baptized some believers in Corinth, though the job of baptism was more commonly delegated to others.

Baptism is an instruction of Scripture. Believers who neglect it do so at their peril.
Why not teach every aspect of it instead of just baptism? Why not speaking in tongues, casting out demons, giving up possessions, the ability for us as disciples to forgive, & law keeping?
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Concerning Paul;
Paul’s 2nd missionary journey was still fairly early in his ministry. Acts is a transitional book. Everything did not change at once. Paul had been baptized (Acts 9.18) following his salvation and apparently the Lord had not instructed him not to baptize. Paul related how he had baptized some Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1.13-17) but even at this point (c. 57 A.D.) water baptism was on its way out. By the time he wrote Ephesians (c. 62), water baptism had ceased (Ephesians 4.4-5). The “one baptism” was the baptism by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12.13) in which we are made members of the body of Christ.
 

Madman

Senior Member
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

In the new dispensation water baptism was to give way to the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the baptizer and he baptizes believers into the Body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:13. It is an operation of God, not man. Water baptism was for Israel, and it is going to go out with Israel as the Nation is set aside. The commissions were also set aside, they included among other things, water baptism.

http://members.peak.org/~albimb/pg01.html
nope
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
Paul also spoke in tongues, cast demons out, worked miracles and healings. All of these signs disappeared by the end of his ministry.

this isn't true. There is documentation from the time of Paul until modern times of those thing happening in each and every century since Christ's resurrection.
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

In the new dispensation water baptism was to give way to the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is the baptizer and he baptizes believers into the Body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:13. It is an operation of God, not man. Water baptism was for Israel, and it is going to go out with Israel as the Nation is set aside. The commissions were also set aside, they included among other things, water baptism.

http://members.peak.org/~albimb/pg01.html

I wonder why Stephen baptized the eunuch if baptism was done away with after the day of Pentecost?
 

LittleDrummerBoy

Senior Member
Why not teach every aspect of it instead of just baptism? Why not speaking in tongues, casting out demons, giving up possessions, the ability for us as disciples to forgive, & law keeping?

You're mixing up a number of things. If you actually look at the text of the Great Commission, what does it actually say?

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

What are we to teach is obedience to "everything" Jesus commanded. So to make a case for the need to teach something, one needs to find it as an imperative of Jesus. Speaking in tongues is never commanded in the New Testament. Nor is keeping the law of Moses. Nor is snake handling.

We need to recognize the differences between descriptions of what happened or will happen and imperatives - which are instructions to be obeyed. An instruction in Mark includes some of both:

He [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Imperatives: Go, preach, believe, be baptized.

Descriptions: drive out demons, speak in tongues, pick up snakes, drink deadly poison, heal the sick.

Turning descriptions into imperatives is a path to error.

Baptism is an imperative.

So even if one were correct that the "signs" no longer occur (and you're not correct), the signs were described as something that would happen - not imperatives. The imperatives are what they always have been -

Preach, believe, baptize, teach obedience to Christ's commands.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
You're mixing up a number of things. If you actually look at the text of the Great Commission, what does it actually say?

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20)

What are we to teach is obedience to "everything" Jesus commanded. So to make a case for the need to teach something, one needs to find it as an imperative of Jesus. Speaking in tongues is never commanded in the New Testament. Nor is keeping the law of Moses. Nor is snake handling.

We need to recognize the differences between descriptions of what happened or will happen and imperatives - which are instructions to be obeyed. An instruction in Mark includes some of both:

He [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Imperatives: Go, preach, believe, be baptized.

Descriptions: drive out demons, speak in tongues, pick up snakes, drink deadly poison, heal the sick.

Turning descriptions into imperatives is a path to error.

Baptism is an imperative.

So even if one were correct that the "signs" no longer occur (and you're not correct), the signs were described as something that would happen - not imperatives. The imperatives are what they always have been -

Preach, believe, baptize, teach obedience to Christ's commands.
What was "everything Jesus commanded of them?"
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
If the Great Commission was to "all nations," what was Paul's mystery or secret?
If the command was already in place from Jesus, why did Paul have a revelation that Salvation to the world was a mystery?

Romans 11:12
But if their trespass means riches for the world, and their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

The Church would not operate under Law as Israel had but under grace.
Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Perhaps in line with Lordship or Discipleship;

Mark 1:14-15
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent you, and believe the gospel.

I sometimes feel like Jesus taught more than grace. Confusing, I know. Maybe related to the Kingdom of God being at hand.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Maybe it's related to an Intertestamental Period or Transitional Period. If in fact there is such a thing.
Some say Paul's Ministry as well had various periods. Like maybe the Penetcost being the start of something, which would also mean it was the end of something, with Jesus being in the middle.

Again if people were to speak in tongues after Jesus gave the Great Commission, they were already speaking in tongues before the Pentecost.

Christians were already going out to "all nations" and new believers were already speaking in tongues from the time of the Great commission.
I have read that all 3,000 new believers at Pentecost were baptized. It hadn't stopped at that point in time.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Also interesting that Peter said "in the name of Jesus Christ."
 
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Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Jews, in foreign lands, attended Pentecost in larger numbers than the other feasts, because the time of year favored travel.

According to Acts 2:5-11 there were Jews from "every nation under heaven" in Jerusalem, possibly visiting the city as pilgrims during Pentecost.

"All Nations"
"All Creation"

The disciples were to go out into "all nations" and all creation.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
These Jews were out of every nation under heaven. The Eleven were to disciple all nations. One of them discipled one company of Gentiles, the household of Cornelius. That was more than seven years after Pentecost or after the Great Commission was given. Seven years after the Great Commission was given it was unlawful for a Christian Jew to come to one of another nation. Acts 10:28. In the Great Commission the eleven were to disciple all nations. Then why was it unlawful for them to come to a Gentile seven years after the Great Commission was given? Why did the other apostles and saved Israelites contend with Peter because he preached to the Gentile seven years after the Great Commission, if they understood, in the Great Commission, that they were to disciple Gentiles? Why was it that the disciples, under the authority of the Eleven, preached the gospel to none but unto the Jews only several years after the Great Commission was given? Acts 11:19

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-great-commission-3/
 
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