Bear hunting...while you still can.

NCMTNHunter

Senior Member
^^ If those data/intuitions are correct, then many of the bear that were maybe run off Chestatee and Chattahoochee will make their way back after they stop hearing and fearing hounds...? Maybe...?

Bear never really leave their home range when they are being run. They go to the places where they are most comfortable. The only ones that left are the dead ones.
 

twincedargap

Senior Member
It would have been nice to to have the hunts respect other use seasons, and spread out, say two widely different wma’s, not such a concentrated slaughter.
 

kevin17

Senior Member
Help me understand why a bear in general is on such a high pedestal. Any where a bear lives it is on a higher standard than other big game animals. I don’t get why they are such a sensitive subject. They smell like a dog and after skinning one it’s like you stuck your hands in a bucket of crisco. They destroy trees that produce for other wild life before it even hits the ground.
 

splatek

UAEC
Bear never really leave their home range when they are being run. They go to the places where they are most comfortable. The only ones that left are the dead ones.

That's good info to know. Here I thought maybe they'd run like the dickens like I might! Get out of dodge so to speak. Thanks. I am constantly learning more and more about these animals...

It would have been nice to to have the hunts respect other use seasons, and spread out, say two widely different wma’s, not such a concentrated slaughter.

That's a really interesting question. Speaking with my scientist cap on, i am going to conjecture that it was for ease of data collection. The bears in Chest and Chat were collared, well, some of them were. My understanding after talking with a DNR tech and a biologist (way back before I ever thought I'd care to hunt bear) was that they chose those areas because they could capture bears in an relatively isolated geographic region for data analysis. My hunch is that using a geographic sampling technique, if successful (however that is determined) would then lead to generalization to the other mountain WMAs. It would be like if I did my research here in Gwinnett, I would generalize the findings to all Georgians, then Americans, then humans, but here instead of simply generalizing the data on behavioral data, DNR could use the data to generalize the application of a hunting method. Total conjecture, but that's generally how applied science works.
 

Tio Hey Seuss

Senior Member
If any of you guys want to read about a real life old time bear and panther dog hunter look up the great
View attachment 985923Ben Lilly
Here is a pic of him with the President.Good reading and great stories!
Ben Lilly was probably the best hunter in American history. Makes Daniel Boone look like a total sissy. He was so effective that he is the reason there aren't grizzlies and cougar in many states. He believed he was on a mission from god to kill every animal that could prey on humans. Teddy Roosevelt said he was the toughest man he ever met. Worth reading up on!
 

Buckman18

Senior Member
For what its worth, there's still at least 1 bear using Chattahoochee. Saw him Thursday PM on the way home from work crossing the highway between the airstream park and the pull off with the NF on 75. Maybe 100 pounds, at most. I got out and ran after him and tried to catch him. As i was getting closer, i clotheslined myself on a laurel limb. It was his lucky day.
 

Christian hughey

Senior Member
Help me understand why a bear in general is on such a high pedestal. Any where a bear lives it is on a higher standard than other big game animals. I don’t get why they are such a sensitive subject. They smell like a dog and after skinning one it’s like you stuck your hands in a bucket of crisco. They destroy trees that produce for other wild life before it even hits the ground.
Just dont understand! Why do people do half the dumb things they do. No ones place to judge another for what they prefer.
 

Christian hughey

Senior Member
But from a big game hunters perspective, I love the challenge and the different opportunity for a true trophy. I look at a 400 lb. black bear with the same excitement and intensity as any trophy whitetail or bull elk for that matter. The bear is an awesome critter and definitely has its place in the wild far as I'm concerned. Now do I want them over populated and sneaking in your home for a midnight snack, no of course not but a happy medium would be nice.
 

JustUs4All

Slow Mod
Staff member
No apologies from me, I learned a long time ago not to say something that I don't mean

I think you have missed the point Al. Often the way something is said gets in the way of what was actually said. There can definitely be a wrong way to say a right thing.
 

Big7

The Oracle
Y'all know I'm well entrenched in the "if it's legal" camp.

My opinion is that large game should not be "hunted" with dogs. That simply is not "fair chase"- IMO.

To me- it's a dogs place to track and recover lawfully wounded game. Not "hunt".

My 2 cents.
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
Y'all know I'm well entrenched in the "if it's legal" camp.

My opinion is that large game should not be "hunted" with dogs. That simply is not "fair chase"- IMO.

To me- it's a dogs place to track and recover lawfully wounded game. Not "hunt".

My 2 cents.


Hunting with dogs is an old time tradition that goes back to the early days of this country. It`s an honorable way to hunt.
 

NGA44

Member
Y'all know I'm well entrenched in the "if it's legal" camp.

My opinion is that large game should not be "hunted" with dogs. That simply is not "fair chase"- IMO.

To me- it's a dogs place to track and recover lawfully wounded game. Not "hunt".

My 2 cents.

Have you ever hunted with dogs?
 

NCMTNHunter

Senior Member
If hunting big game with dogs is not fair chase then hunting anything with dogs is not fair chase. If hunting anything with dogs is not fair chase then fair chase doesn’t exist.
 

Christian hughey

Senior Member
If hunting big game with dogs is not fair chase then hunting anything with dogs is not fair chase. If hunting anything with dogs is not fair chase then fair chase doesn’t exist.
Guess it dont because fair chase is just that, you and the animal you pursue with no outside elements, baits, etc., using an animal to track your game is not exactly fairchase. Not knocking the style of hunting AT ALL, as I have said before I'm interested to the point I would like to run some hounds myself but yall better quit **'in and give them dogs more credit, the amount of bears killed on this hunt was due to the dogs nose and not the houndsmen. Without the dogs that hunt would have went totally different. Yes you do spend time training them, I get that but a dogs nose is an unmatched tool used for hunting that they are born with and man uses this to their advantage every day, even with police k9's, it's no secret that they can find what they are looking for. Not saying you fellas wouldn't know how to hunt without the dogs. I'm sure you would be fine hunters regardless, common sense tells us using dogs isn't fair chase!, is it fun? I'm sure! Is it legal? Sure is! So my thoughts on it are have fun, be safe and give them hounds more credit. Doesn't make you any less a hunter because when it boils down to it you still knocked down 61 bears in 2 weekends. Good job.
 

NCMTNHunter

Senior Member
Guess it dont because fair chase is just that, you and the animal you pursue with no outside elements, baits, etc., using an animal to track your game is not exactly fairchase. common sense tells us using dogs isn't fair chase!

Your opinion of fair chase doesn't dictate or reflect the definition of fair chase. As a matter of fact the organization the coined "Fair Chase", defined it, and trademarked it accepts hunting with dogs as a method of fair chase. Common sense is relative to what is common.

yall better quit **'in and give them dogs more credit, the amount of bears killed on this hunt was due to the dogs nose and not the houndsmen.

Don't be mistaken. Houndsmen praise their dogs and give them all credit where it is due. Heck its the only reason most of them even hunt. Houndmen know exactly what each dog does and is capable of doing. They know which dogs are strike dogs, trail dogs, and pack dogs, and know how to hunt them accordingly.

Yes a dogs nose is an unmatched tool but without houndsmen putting dogs in the woods year round, keeping them in shape and their trailing abilities tuned the dogs would never catch a bear. The houndsmen also have to do all the scouting, find a good track, determine if it is a sow with cubs, what direction the bear this going, if it is headed for a boundary or obstacle that would cause problems and a whole list of other things before ever turning a dog loose. You don't just swing by the pound on the way to woods and let all those dog noses find you a bear. If you started buying bear dog pups today and run them 3 or 4 days a week you might have a pack of dogs you can kill bear with in about three years. It is a second full time job and the reason most of us that would love to simply can't do it anymore.

What has alway's been strange to me is that the bear that I have killed without dogs came after 3 or 4 hard weekends of scouting and about as many days of hunting. The amount of time that I put in to killing those bears won't scratch the surface on the amount of time that goes into killing a bear with dogs but nobody within the hunting community questions the ethics of that.

Without the dogs that hunt would have went totally different.

Without the dog hunt it would have been different. But how much different would it have been than if you set up a situation where 120 of the best stand/still hunters in North Georgia converged on those two WMAs and no where else for 9 days. That would also produce a much higher harvest than normal.

It's funny how the way we are raised doing things can form our opinion of what is right, wrong, fair chase whatever. I remember the first time I saw a spot and stalk bear hunt on TV when I was a teenager. My first thought was why in the world would anyone want to just shoot a bear that didn't have a dog on it. As far as my little world was concerned if there are no dogs then it's not a bear hunt. This is no different than the argument between guns and bows, long range verses regular range (whatever that is) and all the other things hunters like to bicker about. When it comes down to it as long as it is done in a manner that conserves the resource. we all should enjoy taking part in our historic methods of putting meat on the table.
 

Christian hughey

Senior Member
Your opinion of fair chase doesn't dictate or reflect the definition of fair chase. As a matter of fact the organization the coined "Fair Chase", defined it, and trademarked it accepts hunting with dogs as a method of fair chase. Common sense is relative to what is common.



Don't be mistaken. Houndsmen praise their dogs and give them all credit where it is due. Heck its the only reason most of them even hunt. Houndmen know exactly what each dog does and is capable of doing. They know which dogs are strike dogs, trail dogs, and pack dogs, and know how to hunt them accordingly.

Yes a dogs nose is an unmatched tool but without houndsmen putting dogs in the woods year round, keeping them in shape and their trailing abilities tuned the dogs would never catch a bear. The houndsmen also have to do all the scouting, find a good track, determine if it is a sow with cubs, what direction the bear this going, if it is headed for a boundary or obstacle that would cause problems and a whole list of other things before ever turning a dog loose. You don't just swing by the pound on the way to woods and let all those dog noses find you a bear. If you started buying bear dog pups today and run them 3 or 4 days a week you might have a pack of dogs you can kill bear with in about three years. It is a second full time job and the reason most of us that would love to simply can't do it anymore.

What has alway's been strange to me is that the bear that I have killed without dogs came after 3 or 4 hard weekends of scouting and about as many days of hunting. The amount of time that I put in to killing those bears won't scratch the surface on the amount of time that goes into killing a bear with dogs but nobody within the hunting community questions the ethics of that.



Without the dog hunt it would have been different. But how much different would it have been than if you set up a situation where 120 of the best stand/still hunters in North Georgia converged on those two WMAs and no where else for 9 days. That would also produce a much higher harvest than normal.

It's funny how the way we are raised doing things can form our opinion of what is right, wrong, fair chase whatever. I remember the first time I saw a spot and stalk bear hunt on TV when I was a teenager. My first thought was why in the world would anyone want to just shoot a bear that didn't have a dog on it. As far as my little world was concerned if there are no dogs then it's not a bear hunt. This is no different than the argument between guns and bows, long range verses regular range (whatever that is) and all the other things hunters like to bicker about. When it comes down to it as long as it is done in a manner that conserves the resource. we all should enjoy taking part in our historic methods of putting meat on the table.
I agree it is a cool method to killing them and it is all in how you are raised. Everyone has their own way and habits and sometimes both parties can be right in their own way. I will leave it at that. Dont want to come off as condescending in my post at all. I cherish this sport and wish well to all that want to share the experience!
 

Al Medcalf

Senior Member
NCMTNHunter,You hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned:
"Don't be mistaken. Houndsmen praise their dogs and give them all credit where it is due. Heck its the only reason most of them even hunt"

If I didn't coonhunt, I probably wouldn't hunt anymore. I got burned out on deer hunting a long time ago and I was dang good at it. (Recurve bows and shooting instinctive) But, now I don't deer hunt, turkey hunt, fish or play golf. I coonhunt and the reason I do that is because I love training and hunting with dogs. These folks that are throwing rocks at houndsmen better check out their own glass houses. Last time I checked the antis weren't too fond of any kind of hunting. Especially bowhunting and trapping. Yep, they are against them trapping those big bad coyotes that eat their precious deer.
 
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