Bottom Dollar AR's.

Thread starter #1

ASH556

Senior Member
Out of respect for the other thread and to prevent derailment, I'll start this one.

Building a "bottom dollar AR" is about the equivalent of putting a Lamborghini body kit on a KIA. You look cool on the outside, but inside you're still full of crap.

If you want a toy, buy airsoft. It's cheaper and you can shoot your buddies with it.

If you want a rifle, buy a real one. If you can't afford one, save your money until you can if you want it that bad, but please don't waste your money on junk that's destined to fail and will have virtually no re-sale value.

Plain and simple, if it isn't made by Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, or Knights Armament, you're making compromises on quality. It's got nothing to do with the brand name. I really don't care which of the above companies makes it. However, these companies take the appropriate manufacturing and QC measures to turn out quality product. The rest just cut corners. Some more than others.

Do with the info what you will, but don't say I didn't warn you...
 

leoparddog

Senior Member
But what if you buy the parts from Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, Armalite etc.. and assemble them yourself? Build it from quality parts? Putting one together aint rocket science.


More of the 'if you aint spent the money I spent, then yours is junk' crowd. We got them in deer camp toting Remington KS rifles with Talley mounts and Swarovski scopes. "You gotta get one of these KS rifles" or "get yourself some good Talley mounts on that".

Last year I took my "home built" AR to a steel plate match wearing a 3x9 deer scope. I have less than $900 in it including scope and I was competing agains guys who had $2000 Nightforce scopes on expensive target rifles. I came in 10th and lots of those guys with $5K in their rigs didn't do nearly as well as I did, including my buddy who was not happy that I outshot him with his fancy AR-10 and Nightforce scope.

Feh
 

Dutch

AMERICAN WARRIOR
Don't you know that only a high dollar AR can be "motared" to clear a stuck case?:rolleyes:

I was taught in the .mil that you used a cleaning rod to clear a stuck case.

Besides everbody knows that a AK is better than any AR ever built.::ke:
 

Dub

Top Chef
buy a real one. If you can't afford one, save your money until you can if you want it that bad, but please don't waste your money on junk that's destined to fail and will have virtually no re-sale value.


Do with the info what you will, but don't say I didn't warn you...

I've got very limited experience with AR's but this isn't bad advice for guns in general.

Don't buy junk. Do your homework and spend those hard earned dollars wisely.
 
Thread starter #6

ASH556

Senior Member
But what if you buy the parts from Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, Armalite etc.. and assemble them yourself? Build it from quality parts? Putting one together aint rocket science.


More of the 'if you aint spent the money I spent, then yours is junk' crowd. We got them in deer camp toting Remington KS rifles with Talley mounts and Swarovski scopes. "You gotta get one of these KS rifles" or "get yourself some good Talley mounts on that".

Last year I took my "home built" AR to a steel plate match wearing a 3x9 deer scope. I have less than $900 in it including scope and I was competing agains guys who had $2000 Nightforce scopes on expensive target rifles. I came in 10th and lots of those guys with $5K in their rigs didn't do nearly as well as I did, including my buddy who was not happy that I outshot him with his fancy AR-10 and Nightforce scope.

Feh
That's not at all what I'm saying. I don't own anything Colt or LMT. I have a BCM charging handle and grip. My rifles are Daniel Defense. I didn't say, "If it's not DD it's junk."


As far as assembling guns from parts:

1) Nothing wrong if you know what you're doing and do it correctly. What's your barrel nut torqued to? Is your castle nut staked? Did you use anti-seize on the barrel nut threads?


2) "Frankenrifles" will have significantly lower re-sale values, even if assembled from all quality parts.

So, if you know what you're doing and don't care about re-sale, sure, why not.

In regards to you out-shooting your buddy, that's a function of your ability, not the gun's. What size steel were you shooting and at what distances? Unless something is seriously wrong, most every AR is a 2-3 MOA gun with quality ammo. The AR is a platform where "custom built for accuracy" really only applies to the bolt and barrel. Even then, the difference is negligible. Ammo and shooter will make the most difference.

The difference in quality parts/proper assembly has everything to do with reliable function.

Also, just because a person hasn't had issues with their one rifle does not mean that a particular manufacturer is good to go. Likewise, one failure or bad experience does not rule a manufacturer out of the quality group. You have to look at performance, proven or unproven, over several samples and conditions.
 

7MAGMIKE

Senior Member
this is gonna be good.
:pop2::pop2::pop2:
 
Thread starter #8

ASH556

Senior Member
Don't you know that only a high dollar AR can be "motared" to clear a stuck case?:rolleyes:

I was taught in the .mil that you used a cleaning rod to clear a stuck case.

Besides everbody knows that a AK is better than any AR ever built.::ke:
That's a great idea. 2 questions:

1) Do you carry a rod with you everywhere?

2) What if the bolt is locked forward with the stuck case?
 

red tail

GONetwork Member
I agree and disagree with this one bro. as far as the guy that is going to run his rifle hard and often I would say no doubt about buying or building quality. for the guy that wants the best, look to those companies. To the guy who is depending on his rifle with his life no doubt about it, those companies are the ones I would go with.

BUT,
for the guy that the rifle will be a "fun gun" or just something to through in a safe and take it out every now and then. there are other companies that make rifles that will feel those needs.

There are guys that don’t need the “best” and they are not going to paddle a boat with it or through it in the mud and shoot it, or shoot thousands of rounds a year. It may make better to put $900 or less in something then $2k.

With this being said I fall into the guys that want the best and will run a gun hard. My rifle is a tool to me. I don’t buy the cheapest tool I can find. I want one that will last me a long time. But for guys that don’t use specific tools often it may be better for them to buy what they need.
 
Thread starter #10

ASH556

Senior Member
In response to redtail:

I think that syndrome of "cheapness" is simply a degradation for appreciation of quality in society as a whole. Everything has become disposable.

For example, Tools:
Why buy Craftsman/Snap-on/MAC, etc when I can just go down to Harbor Freight and pay 1/2 the price for something that will work "For Me."

It used to be that a man bought the best he could afford and took care of it. There was a pride in ownership, not due to brand, but quality.

Now, most folks settle for something "close enough" or "good enough."

So "professionals" should have "professional" tools and the rest of us should settle with "good enough?"

Here's where it gets really hairy:

I don't think you'll roll up into any "professional" auto shop and find the guys working with Harbor Freight wrenches. However, I do know several cops that beat the streets with sub-par AR's. The trouble is, they don't know any better. The stupid thing rides around in the trunk until they have to qualify with it once a year. Still, it could fail at the moment they need it most. Not just the weapon itself either, but all the crappy accessories they hang off it.

"Just as good as" rails, lights, sights, etc that break and cost them their lives.

Case in point: I was at a Vickers Tactial carbine class last March. This guy rolled up with the epitome of a "good as" carbine. All the accessories were Mako, CAA, URG, etc. We hadn't been on the range 30 min and were still confirming zero for the beginning of the class when his CAA stock saddle broke in half disabling his ability to operate the charging handle until he removed it. An hour later, his cheap Aimpoint knockoff sight mount broke and his red dot fell off his gun during a string of fire.

So, "just as good as" never is!
 

MTK07_UGA

Senior Member
Palmetto State Armory. The only company Proof testing every one of their barrels (which are manufactured by FN) even 6.8 and 300 blackout. Yet you can still get one new in .556/.223 for $699. Just because a company prices their product competitively doesn't mean they do not stand by it or that is is junk. Also there is such thing as paying extra for the name on the gun.
 
It doesn't matter. People will always settle for less no matter what the product. It all boils down to some just dont care about quality as long as they got the part. Some particular firearms brands make their living off these people (wont name any names). Me, I prefer to spend extra and buy quality stuff. I would rather have 1 or 2 great quality rifles than a whole safe full of junk.
 
Question: what exactly is "mortaring" a rifle to eject a stuck case?
 
Question: what exactly is "mortaring" a rifle to eject a stuck case?
pulling on the charging handle and slamming the buttstock on the ground at the same time to pull the case out.
 

take em

Senior Member
Out of respect for the other thread and to prevent derailment, I'll start this one.

Building a "bottom dollar AR" is about the equivalent of putting a Lamborghini body kit on a KIA. You look cool on the outside, but inside you're still full of crap.

If you want a toy, buy airsoft. It's cheaper and you can shoot your buddies with it.

If you want a rifle, buy a real one. If you can't afford one, save your money until you can if you want it that bad, but please don't waste your money on junk that's destined to fail and will have virtually no re-sale value.

Plain and simple, if it isn't made by Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, or Knights Armament, you're making compromises on quality. It's got nothing to do with the brand name. I really don't care which of the above companies makes it. However, these companies take the appropriate manufacturing and QC measures to turn out quality product. The rest just cut corners. Some more than others.

Do with the info what you will, but don't say I didn't warn you...
What about JP, Noveske, Stag, LWRC, and POF? Can't believe you would spend your money on that cheap crap!!!!:stir:

There are different price points in every type of firearm out there. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Sometimes you don't. I promise you I can build a frankengun that will rival any brand you mentioned for quality, reliability, and accuracy.
 

Dutch

AMERICAN WARRIOR
That's a great idea. 2 questions:

1) Do you carry a rod with you everywhere?

2) What if the bolt is locked forward with the stuck case?
Yes I do have a rod with me (doesn't everybody?), since a cleaning rod breaks down into sections and is easy to pack around. I also have a broken case extractor and various parts to keep a AR functioning. All these items pack into a small container and are with me if I am shooting my AR's.

And there is a BIG difference in a stuck case and a stuck BOLT CARRIER.

I was refering to this statement by you in another thread....
Imagine the disappointment of a polymer AR owner when he breaks his gun in half trying to mortar the gun to clear a stuck case. Probably a steel case too, since he's going cheap, and he doesn't realize that steel doesn't expand and seal off the chamber like brass does.

Nothing was said about freeing a stuck bolt which is another whole issue...and slamming the buttstock into the ground is an acceptable method for FREEING A STUCK BOLT/BOLT CARRIER.
 

HandgunHTR

Steelringin' Mod
I promise you I can build a frankengun that will rival any brand you mentioned for quality, reliability, and accuracy.
+1. You can get quality parts from more manufacturers than the ones the OP listed and will build a great rifle/carbine.

I was refering to this statement by you in another thread....
Imagine the disappointment of a polymer AR owner when he breaks his gun in half trying to mortar the gun to clear a stuck case. Probably a steel case too, since he's going cheap, and he doesn't realize that steel doesn't expand and seal off the chamber like brass does.
That is a statement borne of ignorance. Steel cased ammo will absolutely expand to fill the chamber. If it didn't you would get a blast of hot gases coming out of the vents and into your face every time you pulled the trigger. Just because steel isn't as malleable as brass, doesn't mean it isn't malleable at all. At the pressures that a standard 5.56 or 7.62 operate at, steel expands just fine.

Most cases of stuck cases with steel ammo comes from the lacquer that is put on them to keep them from rusting during long term storage.
 

davis211

Senior Member
I promise you, they will have a blast with those old cheap rifles. However, you may not have so much fun trying to keep them in ammo.:banginghe
It's hard when you have to buy 2 of everything (boys 10 & 14). I just cant put out $2400 on 2 AR's right now. Also had to get 1000 rnds of ammo. I have a backup or three if these fail.
 
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