jrickman
Senior Member
Well I wouldn’t be very faithful if I didn’t believe I am right, would I? ?
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Can a Man Be Born Again More Than Once
- Thread starter BanjoPicker
- Start date
Well I wouldn’t be very faithful if I didn’t believe I am right, would I? ?
Dan DeBord
Senior Member
ONE TIME .
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Finished
Madman
Senior Member
Yes. Have you ever considered that a Christian might be snared and not attain salvation.
BanjoPicker
Senior Member
David certainly did his first words again after he backslid, and he was renewed again Ps. 51:1-14. David wanted the same joy and spirit renewed in him that he had before; so it is Biblical and right for backsliders to ask and expect the same blessings they had before, and not to be satisfied and quit seeking God until these blessings are again experienced.
Madman
Senior Member
So we enter into the beatific vision while carrying sin.
BanjoPicker
Senior Member
Sin committed is as much sin one time as it is another. It is as much sin to the saved as to the unsaved. It is itself that is sin, and the time it is committed does not make it unrighteousness at one time and righteousness at another, or sin to one and not to another. Any transgression of the law is sin, whether before or after one is saved, and the penalty for the broken law must be enforced without exception, as well after salvation as before. To reason that sin is not sin when committed by saints, or if committed after salvation, is poor reasoning, and the very devil himself would blush at being accused of such utter lack of intelligence.
Liberty in Christ
Member
Once a son, always a son.
furtaker
Senior Member
So if he's a Christian he doesn't already have salvation?
BanjoPicker
Senior Member
Whenever one sins he must, for the time being, cease to be holy. He must stand condemned and must incur the full penalty of the law that one sin of Adam incurred, or God would be a respecter of persons and a party to selfishness and sin. If He broke the law which He and all free wills are obligated to keep, He would be a sinner. If man does not incur the penalty, then the law is abrogated and he has no rule of duty; consequently, he cannot be either holy or sinful. The penalty cannot be abrogated unless the law itself it abrogated, for precept without penalty is no law. It is only counsel or advice. If God's law is merely advice, then there are no sinners to be saved, there is no need of a Saviour, and the whole plan of the Bible is a sham.
So one has to conclude, that a man is dam-ned for breaking the law of God and for his own sins, and that the sin of rejecting Jesus merely the last sin that seals the doom of man for his own sins and for original sin.
So one has to conclude, that a man is dam-ned for breaking the law of God and for his own sins, and that the sin of rejecting Jesus merely the last sin that seals the doom of man for his own sins and for original sin.
Madman
Senior Member
Why would think he would?
furtaker
Senior Member
Because Jesus said that whoever believes in him "has" everlasting life. That's present tense.
BanjoPicker
Senior Member
In Romans, Paul teaches that men become dead to sin or dead to righteousness WHEN THEY SERVE THE ONE OR THE OTHER. As often as men change masters, they become dead to one or the other, thus proving they can have a spiritual quickening as many times as is necessary. It is God's will that men die only once to sin Rom. 6:5-10, but if they go back into sin, the same process will have to be repeated (1 Jn. 2:1, 2; James 5:19, 20; Gal. 4:19; 6:1; Rev. 3:5).
Madman
Senior Member
Hence we get into verse vss. verse. Holy Scripture must be taken in total.
I will say “once saved always saved” is un-Biblical and extremely dangerous, a fabrication of the reformation.
It is cousin to the prosperity gospel, but to each his own. I choose to follow Holy Scripture and 2000+ years of Christ’s teaching by the Church.
“Saved, sanctified, and on the way to heaven”.
furtaker
Senior Member
The truth is, you don't really know if you're "saved, sanctified, and on your way to heaven". What if you fall away tomorrow and lose your salvation or prove you never were "really" saved?
You automatically believe in eternal security if you believe in salvation by grace. The problem is, most church folks don't believe in salvation by grace. They just say they do. They really believe in salvation by works.
Why do you think eternal security is "extremely dangerous"?
Madman
Senior Member
Really? I don’t know anyone who believes they are saved by works?
The faith has always taught that salvation is available to all men, a free gift offered by God.
Reread Holy Scripture, it is flush with continuing in the faith, running the race to the end, etc.
No one has ever said Christ’s sacrifice is not all sufficient, only that we should lead a life worthy of that sacrifice.
The Church has always taught, “ if I am saved it is all God, if I am lost it is all me”.
Madman
Senior Member
Perhaps you should read up on Charles Templeton.
furtaker
Senior Member
Will you explain how salvation is a FREE gift, by grace and zero works, but you have to live right, continue in the faith, and run the race until the end in order to get it?
Madman
Senior Member
I never said you had to “live right”, please do not give me credit for unspoken words.
I can see how one could believe as you, if they thought our faith did not change us, a “circumcised heart”.
To be a Christian is “to become” to be a disciple, to live a life worthy of our Lord’s sacrifice. Christ is constantly teaching go farther, do better, to be more.
Madman
Senior Member
Only immediately after baptism or confession.
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furtaker
Senior Member
Continuing in the faith and running the race until the end means living right, whether you want to admit it or not. Those were your words, not mine.
Good works are very important in the life of the believer, for the here and now and for rewards in eternity. But they play no part in his salvation. There are many, many warnings in Scripture for believers to live right, and promises of earthly consequences for their actions. The warnings in Scripture prove that believers don't always live a holy life. But they still go to heaven because they're saved by grace and not works.
Salvation by grace and the necessity of persevering until the end to obtain salvation are mutually exclusive. Your position makes no logical sense to any thinking individual, and it certainly doesn't make any sense to a lost man.
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