Can a Man Be Born Again More Than Once

[Madman]

Continuing in the faith and running the race until the end means living right, whether you want to admit it or not. Those were your words, not mine.

Good works are very important in the life of the believer, for the here and now and for rewards in eternity. But they play no part in his salvation. There are many, many warnings in Scripture for believers to live right, and promises of earthly consequences for their actions. The warnings in Scripture prove that believers don't always live a holy life. But they still go to heaven because they're saved by grace and not works.

Salvation by grace and the necessity of persevering until the end to obtain salvation are mutually exclusive. Your position makes no logical sense to any thinking individual, and it certainly doesn't make any sense to a lost man.

Then you are a believer in purgatory? A tree is known by its fruit and a spring by its water. I have no desire to argue as these thoughts ar not my own. Holy Scripture proves what the the Church has always taught, and it is not “once’s saved always saved”.

 

[furtaker]

Then you are a believer in purgatory? A tree is known by its fruit and a spring by its water. I have no desire to argue as these thoughts ar not my own. Holy Scripture proves what the the Church has always taught, and it is not “once’s saved always saved”.

What is "the Church" you keep referring to?

I don't give a hoot what a church says. I just care about what the Bible says.

 

[furtaker]

Then you are a believer in purgatory?

Come again?

 

[Madman]

What is "the Church" you keep referring to?

I don't give a hoot what a church says. I just care about what the Bible says.

I know. So does every other denomination that disagrees with you.

 

[furtaker]

I know. So does every other denomination that disagrees with you.

?
You seem to put a lot of faith in "man". And you didn't answer my question.

 

[Madman]

Come again?

If you believe a man can die in sin then you must believe in purgatory.

?
You seem to put a lot of faith in "man".

how so?

 

[furtaker]

If you believe a man can die in sin then you must believe in purgatory.

how so?

It's all about man's works and man's performance to you... persevering until the end...and apparently some Church...

I believe it's all about Jesus.

What is this Church you keep referring to? That was my question.

 

[Madman]

?
You seem to put a lot of faith in "man". And you didn't answer my question.

The question about “what church”? By that I mean the Church that Christ built.

Matthew 16:18

 

[Madman]

?
You seem to put a lot of faith in "man". And you didn't answer my question.

I put my faith in Christ, I believe what the Church has taught about the faith for 2000+ years.

It appears you put your faith in your ability to read and fully comprehend Holy Scripture, that looks to me as though you put your faith in 1 man, yourself.

BTW. It has been the Church that God used to canonize and preserve Holy Scripture for centuries.

 

[jrickman]

Might help if everyone in this debate shared their denomination. Agreeing to disagree like we’ve done for several centuries might work better to spread the good news.

Baptist here, with a strong emphasis on the Holy Spirit led priesthood of the believer.

 

[Madman]

Most Protestant denominations do not have a structure to follow, as the Romans call it, a Magisterium. They pretty much follow what the preacher or Sunday school teacher says, until they disagree on some topic, then they leave.

I know, once saved always saved Baptist, and others who are not.

Quite a mix.

Therefore, let us all agree to disagree, was not what Christ asked the Father for.

Nah, we will all be back.

 

[BanjoPicker]

In Luke 15, Jesus taught about a "lost sheep," a "lost coin," and a "prodigal son," Each started out in the right relationship to the owners and the father, and each was received back again when found. It would be stupid to argue that the "sheep" or the "coin" or the "boy" could not be lost again and again, and be found again and again. It would be equally foolish to argue that the sheep never was a sheep or the coin never was a coin, or boy never was a boy if they became lost and were never found again. Many prodigals never have returned home and many sheep and coins have been lost forever. It would be worse still to argue that the boy never was at home to begin with, or that he never was a son if he ever was lost, or that the sheep was never a sheep or the coin never was a coin if they were lost forever. This is what some argue concerning saved men, saying, "If a man is finally lost, or if he backslides, he was not saved or a son of God to begin with."

 

[gemcgrew]

Banjo, you need a better Shepherd.

 

[gordon 2]

Banjo, you need a better Shepherd.

I'm about the only one here that doesn't. I find Banjo's Occam Razor against Reformation theology worth something, however.

 

[Madman]

But everyone told me it was better out here.

 

[furtaker]

I put my faith in Christ, I believe what the Church has taught about the faith for 2000+ years.

It appears you put your faith in your ability to read and fully comprehend Holy Scripture, that looks to me as though you put your faith in 1 man, yourself.

BTW. It has been the Church that God used to canonize and preserve Holy Scripture for centuries.

And the Scriptures teach that salvation is by grace through faith alone.

God made the plan of salvation simple enough that a child can understand it.

Contrary to popular belief, a lost man doesn't have the read the entire Bible and have a PhD in theology in order to understand the gospel.

 

[Madman]

And the Scriptures teach that salvation is by grace through faith alone.

I would like to see that.

 

[BanjoPicker]

We all know that the process of seeking and finding a sheep, a coin, or a boy ever so many times would be the same in all instances. The joy of the owner and father upon finding either of these would always be the same, if he were a normal human being. So with a man, if he is saved and goes back into sin a dozen times, he must go the same way back to God; and unless he has committed the unpardonable sin, he will be forgiven and renewed by God to life each time. If the new birth is needful the first time, it will be needful every time a man goes back into sin and becomes a sinner. It is a moral change, as has been seen; so one can be unborn by a moral fall as much as he can be "born again" by a moral restoration by God. How many times the new birth or the moral restoration is needful, that many times the same process will work to fully restore a fallen man. The same process in a moral restoration will work many times, just like any process of restoration in any realm.

 

[furtaker]

I would like to see that.

Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 11:25-27, John 20:31, Romans 5:1, 1 John 5:1, and 1 John 5:13 for starters. Let me know if you need more.

 

[furtaker]

I would like to see that.

I thought you said we aren't saved by works? You said so in post #76.