Compare the Amish of today with the Church of yesterday?

[Artfuldodger]

I was reading about how the Amish live and think and thought it might be a good study to compare that to our society/Church of yesteryear.
Then how has it changed to the better or worse for each situation. I guess one could look at our changes as a decay and in other ways it really for the better.

Mostly though I was looking that their rules, humility, non-violence, husband over wife, not being worldly, being social, helping others, not boasting, not bragging, having a dress code, etc.

In many ways my Holiness grandparents may have had more in common with them they they do the present Church. Yet in many ways they were not very Holy at all.

Oh, this was the article I was reading. The Amish themselves have evolved as well on some things.
https://www.yourmoneymagic.com/fast...-about-the-amish-that-few-people-know/5/?ac=2

 

[Artfuldodger]

Some of the things in that article are not true such as this;
"While Christians start their good life after baptism, the Amish start their lifestyle of doing good the minute they are born. The entire community strives to do good every minute of every day."

If one is raised in a Christian household, you start doing good the minute you are born as well. At least you are taught right from wrong, etc.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Modesty, humility, accountability? Some things in modern Christianity seem to not be what it used to be.
Also related in this topic in relation to other threads is the balance of grace and all those strict rules. Works of helping and being neighborly and loving is one thing. Not sure about some of those rules like you can't talk about pregnancy or you can't play musical instruments.

When I think of grace being dead without works, I think about love more than fornication rules or playing cards or women wearing jewelry.

 

[Artfuldodger]

To be fair, the Church my grandparents were in was always more about the rules than grace. At least that's the way I took it. But being a rule based society does seem to help the community if those rules don't go overboard. Helping others, etc. is beneficial, but women/girls not being able to wear pants didn't help anything.

 

[BeerThirty]

The Amish community has also been a mystery and yet intriguing to me. I used to see them everywhere where I grew up in WI. Their way of being self-reliant, hard-working and raising their young into their ways at an early age has always earned my respect for their people.

 

[OwlRNothing]

It's not a good comparison. Like Masons and LDS and Scientology's (until recently) - there is more to the Amish lifestyle than the Amish are willing to share. You can do some research on it easily enough, but many are still under the assumption that all is good and moral within the Amish cult. They seem to be very nice people, but even that has it's backstory and it's reasons. Just FYI.

 

[buckpasser]

I think they, like many of us, are just Amish because they were born Amish. How many new members do they attract? Hardly any. Why? Because you need to be a bit ignorant to be a good Amish church member. It’s helpful to be raised in it and never know anything else. I realize what I’m saying can be true of many religious movements, but there are far more people born of zero faith that come to Christ than try to be Amish.

There are some things I’d like about being Amish. Pretty country that they reside in normally. A wholesome and safe environment to raise the kids in, reliable and trustworthy friends and neighbors, NOT PAYING TAXES, push poaching for deer on any of “God’s land” they want, etc.

 

[Artfuldodger]

It's not a good comparison. Like Masons and LDS and Scientology's (until recently) - there is more to the Amish lifestyle than the Amish are willing to share. You can do some research on it easily enough, but many are still under the assumption that all is good and moral within the Amish cult. They seem to be very nice people, but even that has it's backstory and it's reasons. Just FYI.

I understand there is some bad in every group to include any Church or society, Christian or not. My point was just using them as maybe not evolving as fast as most mainstream Christian groups or societies due to their isolation. I would think my great grandparents had more in common with their Christian ways than with how most Christians live today. Back then most Christians were pretty deep in the rules and conduct, dress codes, etc.
Women were expected to be more in line of Paul's guidelines. People did not play the fiddle as it was an instrument of Satan. Playing cards were liken to gambling. Drinking was prohibited. Dancing wasn't allowed nor was sunbathing.
Anything worldly was frowned upon if it wasn't godliness. The Ten Commandments was a big deal. Salvation was of grace but works were much more of a focus then than now.
Conduct was to me meek, humble, not proudful. One was suppose to go out of their way to help others even if it meant making personal sacrifices for your own family.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Folks is always saying that America is hurting is because we have turned from God or lost His teachings. I would assume they mean helping others and not being so mean to each other. Although we could add a host of other reasons people see this concept as happening.

Would we as a nation fair better if we were more like our great grand parents or the present Amish or even some of the more Holiness denominations?
In terms of being more humble and helpful? Plus if we were all more accountable.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think they, like many of us, are just Amish because they were born Amish. How many new members do they attract? Hardly any. Why? Because you need to be a bit ignorant to be a good Amish church member. It’s helpful to be raised in it and never know anything else. I realize what I’m saying can be true of many religious movements, but there are far more people born of zero faith that come to Christ than try to be Amish.

There are some things I’d like about being Amish. Pretty country that they reside in normally. A wholesome and safe environment to raise the kids in, reliable and trustworthy friends and neighbors, NOT PAYING TAXES, push poaching for deer on any of “God’s land” they want, etc.

I think though to become Amish, it's more than just joining their religion. That's probably why many outsiders don't join. It's a bit different than just becoming a Protestant after salvation. It's probably easier becoming and living as a Protestant that a Catholic or LDS, as well.

 

[Ruger#3]

Respectfully, the Amish are much more like the ancient churches. Bring them into the church early, they grow up in the church and see it in their daily lives of their families. It’s how it was for thousands of years.

 

[buckpasser]

I think though to become Amish, it's more than just joining their religion. That's probably why many outsiders don't join. It's a bit different than just becoming a Protestant after salvation. It's probably easier becoming and living as a Protestant that a Catholic or LDS, as well.

It is certainly different. Good point. I was just pointing out that it’s not such a pillar and light of Christianity that it really draws anyone else in. They are getting pretty thin genetically now because of that. Lots of six finger hands going on. For someone who views it for the first time, with a mature mind and without emotion or pressure from Amish family to join, it just looks a lot like a cult.

I do respect certain things about the Amish, but I’ve listened to testimony from former members and it’s not a great group to look up to.

 

[Artfuldodger]

It is certainly different. Good point. I was just pointing out that it’s not such a pillar and light of Christianity that it really draws anyone else in. They are getting pretty thin genetically now because of that. Lots of six finger hands going on. For someone who views it for the first time, with a mature mind and without emotion or pressure from Amish family to join, it just looks a lot like a cult.

I do respect certain things about the Amish, but I’ve listened to testimony from former members and it’s not a great group to look up to.

I've also heard a lot of individual testimony of the LDS and some other denominations but overall they seem to be a good organization.

In respect to luring others to the Salvation, perhaps some of the more modern Churches that focus more on God's grace and helping others would lure more folks in that the ones that stress sin and following rules.
I wonder if the old ways of all of our Churches kept many from joining compare to today's Church?

Maybe America is more loving and helpful overall but we only see the bad side as reported by the News.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Since the Amish appears to be a bad group to use as an example. Would America be better off today if we lived as the Pentecostals of the 40's and 50's?
I'm assuming there must be a group of Christians in some era in America that may have had better moral and conduct the could uses as a comparison.
Maybe there isn't and we are as good today in being helpful and humble as any of our ancestors. Maybe all the rules and sin preaching don't really help us or show us the way to godliness.

Emulate is the word I was looking for. Is there a Church, denomination, or era of Christians that we can emulate to be a better country or society?

 

[buckpasser]

That’s an interesting question. Ultimately, recruitment works best when the born again are humble and obedient to the Holy Spirit, while being the exemplary Christian long term. I would say maybe the “Charismatic Movement” of a couple decades ago would be a candidate worth reviewing. They had the humility and the attitude of following the Holy Spirit down pat. They fall a little short when you look at their long term results however. Their recruits tended to come in “on fire” and relatively quickly burn out, possibly due to the anti-OSAS stance and the legalism that was present. The children raised in that type of church have a much higher walk away rate than say, Southern Baptist as well.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I understand there is some bad in every group to include any Church or society, Christian or not. My point was just using them as maybe not evolving as fast as most mainstream Christian groups or societies due to their isolation. I would think my great grandparents had more in common with their Christian ways than with how most Christians live today. Back then most Christians were pretty deep in the rules and conduct, dress codes, etc.
Women were expected to be more in line of Paul's guidelines. People did not play the fiddle as it was an instrument of Satan. Playing cards were liken to gambling. Drinking was prohibited. Dancing wasn't allowed nor was sunbathing.
Anything worldly was frowned upon if it wasn't godliness. The Ten Commandments was a big deal. Salvation was of grace but works were much more of a focus then than now.
Conduct was to me meek, humble, not proudful. One was suppose to go out of their way to help others even if it meant making personal sacrifices for your own family.

When I was a kid back in the early 70s, it was like that here. Drinking a beer was almost the equivalent of raping a goat. Fishing on Sunday was a mortal sin. Heaven forbid if you had mowed your yard or picked some corn on Sunday, nobody in the community would probably have ever spoken to you again. Just owning a deck of cards would likely send you to perdition. Women didn't wear pants, ever, and had to sit on their own side of the church and have their own Sunday school class, etc.
I personally think it's for the better that it's not like that now. While religion is a very good thing for many folks, and is a general positive influence on society, when a society becomes a theocracy and every action of everyone's life is filtered through harsh religious standards, bad things can happen. Salem, MA in the 1600s and Iran in the present day come to mind.

 

[buckpasser]

When I was a kid back in the early 70s, it was like that here. Drinking a beer was almost the equivalent of raping a goat. Fishing on Sunday was a mortal sin. Heaven forbid if you had mowed your yard or picked some corn on Sunday, nobody in the community would probably have ever spoken to you again. Just owning a deck of cards would likely send you to perdition. Women didn't wear pants, ever, and had to sit on their own side of the church and have their own Sunday school class, etc.
I personally think it's for the better that it's not like that now. While religion is a very good thing for many folks, and is a general positive influence on society, when a society becomes a theocracy and every action of everyone's life is filtered through harsh religious standards, bad things can happen. Salem, MA in the 1600s and Iran in the present day come to mind.

I experienced a lot of that too. I never understand the fishing thing! I think it boils down to the reason an INDIVIDUAL chooses not to do something. Is it to please the neighbor or the Lord? There’s freedom in only choosing to serve God vs the appearance of godliness. There’s a sweet spot somewhere in there, but it HAS to be an individual thing that just happens to show up in an organized way, not an organizational requirement that’s supposed to promote the individual walk.

 

[Spotlite]

When I was a kid back in the early 70s, it was like that here. Drinking a beer was almost the equivalent of raping a goat. Fishing on Sunday was a mortal sin. Heaven forbid if you had mowed your yard or picked some corn on Sunday, nobody in the community would probably have ever spoken to you again. Just owning a deck of cards would likely send you to perdition. Women didn't wear pants, ever, and had to sit on their own side of the church and have their own Sunday school class, etc.
I personally think it's for the better that it's not like that now. While religion is a very good thing for many folks, and is a general positive influence on society, when a society becomes a theocracy and every action of everyone's life is filtered through harsh religious standards, bad things can happen. Salem, MA in the 1600s and Iran in the present day come to mind.

I experienced a lot of that too. I never understand the fishing thing! I think it boils down to the reason an INDIVIDUAL chooses not to do something. Is it to please the neighbor or the Lord? There’s freedom in only choosing to serve God vs the appearance of godliness. There’s a sweet spot somewhere in there, but it HAS to be an individual thing that just happens to show up in an organized way, not an organizational requirement that’s supposed to promote the individual walk.

A lot of it was taught and passed down as “the Bible says”. To further complicate things, questioning your elders was a sin because it shows disrespect - the answer was “because I said so.”

So you just did it and never studied the Bible. I remember it being a sin to cook on Sunday. My Grandmother would cook it up on Saturdays.

 

[Nicodemus]

When I was a little bitty youngun I remember Daddy saying it wasn`t against the law to hunt on Sunday. It was against the law to shoot a gun on Sunday.

It wasn`t enforced.

 

[Ruger#3]

Ohio had archaic blue laws that began in the mid 1800s. Only retailers that supported travel were allowed to open on Sunday. You could buy a Slim Jim at a service station but not milk for your children at a grocery.