Conditions for Keeping Eternal Life

[gordon 2]

If have often been accused by others due to being RC, by those who are not of my denomination that my faith is a false faith, a corruption of the true faith, that at the most it is of evil origins, or idol worship for example or bewitched at least and so confused by not being complete so as to be easy to manipulate by some.

I have come to accept this accusation as being true not only for myself but for everyone else as well. Everyone else including myself are inhabited by a degree of faith or different measure of faith that can be put at odds and so to be in conflict or disagreement with every other degree of faith and measure of an other within God's perception of what it is to be the people informed by His heart.

I must confess to all of my disability and so many times of not being very good at reading a room and that I am often too judgmental, to quick to not find cause for mercy towards others-- of wanting things selfishly perhaps. Nevertheless, I love every man and every man who loves God as a brother no matter what degree of faith theirs might be.

It is in this spirit of love that I wish everyone Merry Christmas and my sincere respect even that I might have made you feel that I accused you of being who you are and was not.

" We have different gifts according to the grace given us. " It is this way in my biological family and so it is also in my greater spiritual family--- likewise I honor your parent to be mine.

 

[Ruger#3]

If have often been accused by others due to being RC, by those who are not of my denomination that my faith is a false faith, a corruption of the true faith, that at the most it is of evil origins, or idol worship for example or bewitched at least and so confused by not being complete so as to be easy to manipulate by some.

I have come to accept this accusation as being true not only for myself but for everyone else as well. Everyone else including myself are inhabited by a degree of faith that can be put at odds and so to be in conflict or disagreement with every other degree of faith of an other within God's perception of what it is to be the people informed by His heart.

I must confess to all of my disability and so many times of not being very good at reading a room and that I am often too judgmental, to quick to not find cause for mercy towards others-- of wanting things selfishly perhaps. Nevertheless, I love every man and every man who loves God no matter what degree of faith theirs might be.

It is in this spirit of love that I wish everyone Merry Christmas and my sincere respect even that I might have made you feel that I accused you of being who you are.

" We have different gifts according to the grace given us. "

God Bless and Merry Christmas.

 

[Artfuldodger]

My beliefs are very close to those of my parents.

 

[Ruger#3]

My beliefs are very close to those of my parents.

I am quite different. My beliefs are very different from my parents.

 

[BanjoPicker]

This was before Jesus blood had been shed for salvation. Hence they hadn’t received salvation because salvation wasn’t completed.

I believe you better go back and read in Matthew 28:8, 9, 10 here it is Testimony of women to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and then in Matt. 8:11 Testimony of the soldiers to the resurrection, and then in Matt. 12-15 the plot to destroy faith in the resurrection, then we have Matt. 16, 17 the testimony of disciples to the resurrection of Jesus and here are so more Scriptures to back it Mk. 16:12; Lk. 24:13; Jn. 20, 21. and if that's not enough read Matt. 28:1-7 the post-resurrection ministry of Jesus Angelic testimony to the resurrection. His blood had been shed so it wasn't before He was crucified and his blood was shed afterward and after the writing of the book of New Testament. Paul taught that both Jews and Gentiles had to repent to be saved Acts 17:30, 31; 20:21; 26:20; Rom. 2:4; 2 Cor. 7:8-10; 2 Tim. 2:25; Heb. 6:1, 6. Jesus commanded men to repent as late as 96 A. D. when the last book of the Bible was written Rev. 2:5, 16, 21, 22; 3:3, 19; 9:20, 21; 16:9-11.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Statements that used the words "endure" and "end" prove that men must endure to the end to be saved. Matt. 10:22; "the end of those things [sin of the flesh] is death" Rom. 6:21-23; "if we hold fast the hope until the end" Heb. 3:6, 12-14; 6:11, 12; 1 Pet. 1:5, 9, 13; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21; Heb. 23, 35-39.

The word "IF" is used 1,522 times in the Bible and implies conditions to meet throughout Scripture to be finally saved. All of God's covenants and promises are based upon conditions in both Testaments Gen. 4:7; Ex. 15:26; Lev. 26; Deut. 4:29, 30; 6:25; 7:12; 8:19; 11:13, 22, 27, 28; 15:5; 28:1-58; 30:10; Josh. 24-20; Mt. 16:24; Lk. 9:23-25; Jn. 7:17; 8:24; 12:26, 47; 14:15, 23; 15:9, 10; Rom. 8:9-17; 10:9, 10; 1 Jn. 1:7-9; Heb. 6:4-9; 10:26; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; 1 Jn. 2:15-17. The word "lest" implies the same condition as "if" and is used many times warning saved men to stay saved or be lost 2 Cor. 2:11; 11:2-4; Rom. 11:20-24; 1 Cor. 10:12; Gal. 2:2; 4:11; 6:1; Col. 2:4, 8; 1 Thess. 3:5; Heb. 2:1-3; 3:12, 13; 4:1, 11; 12:3, 13-16. Some of the most disputed passages of this kind are Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29; 2 Pet. 2:20-22.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Some points to consider are Jesus was born of water(Mary) and of Spirit. I do believe Jesus received the Holy Spirit at his water baptism.

Aren't there other accounts of people receiving the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism?

Acts 10:44
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!

 

[Artfuldodger]

I thought this was a good read on how we can get all caught up in the physical legalism, we forget the spiritualism that goes along with it.
The parts we humans do is not salvation, it's understanding the spiritual parts of what God does.

Nicodemus, You Must Be Born Again

 

[BanjoPicker]

Some points to consider are Jesus was born of water(Mary) and of Spirit. I do believe Jesus received the Holy Spirit at his water baptism.

Aren't there other accounts of people receiving the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism?

Acts 10:44
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!

Read the thread on Truth about the Holy Spirit maybe it will help you see and understand more and what the difference is in the water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Statements of Jesus before the cross prove that one must meet certain conditions to keep saved:

"Sin no more lest a worse thing, come upon thee" Jn. 5:14; "If ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed . . . whosoever committed sin is the servant of sin" Jn. 8:31, 34; "from that day many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. . . . will ye also go away?" Jn. 6:66, 67; "Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he taketh away(not taken to Heaven or laid on a shelf as unconditional securityites teach) He is cast forth AS a branch, and IS WITHERED; and man gather them and CAST THE INTO THE FIRE, AND THEY ARE BURNED" Jn. 15:1-6; "Those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition" Jn. 17:12; If Judas was given to Jesus by God then Judas had eternal life according to Jesus in the same prayer: "that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him" Jn. 17:2, 3; Judas could not have been lost if he had never been given to Christ and if Christ had never had him to lose.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Statements of Jesus after the cross to save men in the churches prove that men had to meet certain conditions or be lost.

Statements were made to the various churches: To Ephesus, "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast LEFT THY FIRST LOVE, Remember therefore from whence THOU ART FALLEN, and REPENT and do thy first works; or else I will . . . remove thy candlestick out of its place, EXCEPT THOU REPENT" Rev. 2:4, 5; To Smyrna, "BE THOU FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, and I will give thee a crown of life" Rev. 2:10; To Pergamos, "Thou holdest fast my name, and HAST NOT DENIED THE FAITH . . . But I have a few things against thee. . . . REPENT; or I will come unto thee and will fight against thee" Rev. 2:13-16; To Thyatira, "I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel . . . to teach and seduce my servants to commit fornication, and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her space TO REPENT of her fornication and SHE REPENTED NOT. Behold I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, EXCEPT THEY REPENT of their deeds . . . I will give everyone of you ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS. . . . Hold fast till I come" Rev. 2:20-25; To Sardis "Thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain, that are READY TO DIE: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. . . . HOLD FAST AND REPEN. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which HAVE NOT DEFILED THEIR GARMENTS; and they [only they] shall walk with me in white: FOR THEY ARE WORTHY" Rev. 3:1-4; To Philadelphia, "HOLD THAT FAST which thou hast. THAT NO MAN TAKE THY CROWN" Rev. 3:11; To Laodicea, "Thy art neither cold or hot, . . . . So then because thou art neither cold or hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH . . . be zealous therefore, AND REPENT" Rev. 3:15-19;

Every one of these statements was made years after the so-called super-grace was supposed to have been given by Paul, under which, according to the false securityites no man needs to or can repent, confess sins, lose eretrnal life, be lost or have his name blotted out of the book of life. The future sins of modern false securityites may be taken care of without meeting certain conditions (so they say), but these poor souls in the early churches were required to meet all these conditions or be lost. They had to be faithful to the end and meet certain conditions to be saved.
Modern saints may thing they cannot fall (and if some do they believe they were never really saved to begin with), but Christ accused the early saints of falling and required them to repent and do their first works again or be removed.
The modern saints may not be able to deny the faith after one act of faith, but the early ones were accused of doing so. They may say they cannot die in sin again., but early ones were told that only those who do not defile their garments will walk with Christ in white raiment (the righteousness of the saints, Rev. 19:8). Modern saints also think they will not lose their crown of life, but the early ones were told that some men could take their crown. They may not be able to be spued out of the mouth of Christ, but early ones could be. They may not have to keep clean and live right to be Christians, but the early ones were required to do so. The sin-business had to be put out of their lives.

where was Paul’s super-grace in the day of Christ’s dealings with the churches? Why was not the sacrifice of Christ abiding then? Why did not the Holy Spirit keep these saints perfect so they would not be guilty of all these accusations, if he is supposed to be responsible for all acts of saints who have no free moral agency to act for themselves? We can logically ask these and other questions of unconditional security people. Why did God permit early saints to get into so many troubles if He was responsible for their personal acts? Why did Christ require them to repent if repentance is an error, as some teach today? Why would repentance be required after one is saved not also at the time he is saved?

It will be noted that at the end of each of the seven letters to the churches that Christ promised rewards only to those who overcome and not one thing was promised to the ones who would not overcome, except to be hurt of the second death, which is the lake of fire. They would not be able to eat of the tree of life, their names would be blotted out of the book of life, and they would not be able to enjoy Heaven and the other blessings promised to overcomers Rev. 2:7,11,17,26-28; 3:5, 12, 21. To every church Jesus laid down certain conditions and gave certain warnings of failure. If being hurt of the second death, having names blotted out of the book of life, do not constitute being lost, then we do not know what it means.
The eternal life referred to in John 10:27-29 is given only to those who continue to follow and as long as they follow Jesus: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, AND THEY FOLLOW ME: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand,” Nothing is here promised to those who do not follow, and if one follows he naturally will meet the above conditions. If one hears Jesus he will obey and meet the conditions of eternal life laid down by Him, and this is eternal security and all the security one needs. All these things certainly imply continued faith, obedience, and faithful living if they mean anything.