Cool Covenant Communique

Thread starter #1
What Changed

I was recently asked what changed in the teaching of Paul and what changed with the new covenant. The short answer is, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That changed everything. It nullified the covenant of the Law and instituted a new and better covenant based on better promises. (see Hebrews 8:6-13) The old covenant was nullified because Jesus fulfilled the Law and the things written in the Prophets about the One who would bring salvation.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said, Matthew 5:17: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” So, while the Law was nullified as a covenant between God and the Jewish people, the Law itself was not destroyed. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:8–9 (KJV) “…the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners…”

Therefore, the Law still condemns people and shows them that they are unable to obtain a relationship with God by their own strength. Yet the Law is no longer a covenant between God and mankind. It has been replaced by a new covenant ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ and secured by an oath between God and Jesus (God and God) as we read in Hebrews 6:17–18
“17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:”

Salvation has always been by faith in God. The covenant of the Law was given to the Israelites to show them that they could not measure up to the standard of God by their own strength. Romans 3:19–20 makes this clear in saying,
“19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
The Law was never meant to provide salvation. We read this in Galatians 2:16:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Grace and peace to you.
Larry
E3 Ministries
www.larryeiss.com
 
lol I'm amazed at the number of believers who use Matthew 5:17, quoting Jesus in "fulfilling the Law", but fail to mention how Jesus tells us that the Law was "until heaven and earth pass away", and in the next verse tells us that we will be great in heaven if we keep the Law and teach others to keep it. :rofl:

I do, though, agree with the guys statement that the Law was never designed to bring salvation. It was designed to bring blessings and/or curses. Since Jesus redeemed us from the curses, we are now free to obey FROM OUR HEART without the fear of the punishment (curses) of failing. :banana:

When it comes to Paul, you've got to ask yourself.... "Why would Paul preach against the Law, but prove to everyone later in his life that he, too, "walked upright" and kept the Law?" :) In Acts 21, we read that believers were spreading lies about Paul back then. Those same exact lies are being spread today :(
 
What Changed

I was recently asked what changed in the teaching of Paul and what changed with the new covenant. The short answer is, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That changed everything. It nullified the covenant of the Law and instituted a new and better covenant based on better promises. (see Hebrews 8:6-13) The old covenant was nullified because Jesus fulfilled the Law and the things written in the Prophets about the One who would bring salvation.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said, Matthew 5:17: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” So, while the Law was nullified as a covenant between God and the Jewish people, the Law itself was not destroyed. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:8–9 (KJV) “…the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners…”

Therefore, the Law still condemns people and shows them that they are unable to obtain a relationship with God by their own strength. Yet the Law is no longer a covenant between God and mankind. It has been replaced by a new covenant ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ and secured by an oath between God and Jesus (God and God) as we read in Hebrews 6:17–18
“17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:”

Salvation has always been by faith in God. The covenant of the Law was given to the Israelites to show them that they could not measure up to the standard of God by their own strength. Romans 3:19–20 makes this clear in saying,
“19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
The Law was never meant to provide salvation. We read this in Galatians 2:16:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Grace and peace to you.
Larry
E3 Ministries
www.larryeiss.com
Yet the Law is no longer a covenant between God and mankind
So Larry,
You followed with a fairly decent job of showing that the Law never was a covenant, but a schoolmaster/tutor.

Do you often attempt to prove yourself wrong?
 
For the edification of all here....

Acts 21

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.


Hold on to these same lies if you want to, and keep spreading them, too, if you want. I choose to believe what James, Paul and an untold crowd of elders believed....that keeping the Law is how we "walk upright" before our Father, but it's not for salvation.
 
Thread starter #5
We use the law properly when it's used for the unbeliever, not the believer. The law is not dead, but believers are dead to the law.
Your faith and life will operate well, if you will consent to Him living in and thru you. You will have untold trouble and failure if you remain sin-conscious, law-conscious, and performance-conscious (teaching links inserted in the 3 points). These work against Christ-consciousness and Christ-confidence.
 

"the Law is a shadow of things to come" (from the link in Stripper's post)
or
the Law is a shadow of immutable, eternal reality?

Your view between the above statements is dependent upon your concept of God as "fallible" or "infallible". If God changed His governance of His creation at a point in time, His governance was, or is, necessarily imperfect before, or after, that point. If you say that both are perfect for their time, then you have concluded that He created an imperfect time.

While it would make us feel special to think that we are blessed to live in a time when we are under a better divine government (also from the link), we are thereby concluding that God is giving preference to us on the basis of time; which is no different than God giving preference to us on the basis of our nationality, or race, or sex.

So what did happen? Revelation happened. God progressively reveals to us that which best brings glory and honor to His name. The Law describes God's People, and thereby, through the Spirit, reveals God . Christ demonstrates the same, and thereby, through the Spirit, reveals God. Speaking only for myself, I need both, and more, but remain thankful for what He has given, and >[selfishly]< pray for more.
 
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We use the law properly when it's used for the unbeliever, not the believer. The law is not dead, but believers are dead to the law.
Your faith and life will operate well, if you will consent to Him living in and thru you. You will have untold trouble and failure if you remain sin-conscious, law-conscious, and performance-conscious (teaching links inserted in the 3 points). These work against Christ-consciousness and Christ-confidence.
If the Law is not dead, may I ask, how is it still alive? How is it "alive" in a believer today?

If believers are dead to the Law, why do we read that they (Jews and Gentiles) were still keeping the Law long after Jesus' ascension?

No offense, but the last thing I want to do is click on what I know is another anti-semetic teaching, something I heard my entire life. Once I realized that I was listening to preachers preach the same lies people were saying about Paul back then, my walk with our Lord changed. My walk became more like His.

I John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
Thread starter #9
Theres no anti-semitism in the new covenant, only a new way by which we have complete access to God by His grace and not our performance.
Living by the Spirit is where we have life, not from the law, which has no life or power.
The strength of sin is the law, but thanks be to God for giving us His victory in Christ. That's the "place" of our life, having been made alive by the cross and resurrection.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
The heart of stone vs the law might be one way and the heart of flesh harmonious with the Lord might make another. Now it can be argued that it was always this way. And so the law killed the old man, the old heart, to make God plain to some. Yet for grace, or for the heart of flesh, through Christ, God makes his new man alive to make God plain to some.

If I die I die not to the law now, but I have died to the old man with Christ's death and with out the law, and so made alive without the law. Perhaps that in the law I would not even have made the minimum bar of being a remnant-- sometimes having bowed the knee!

So the new way vs the old way has a different departure point-- in this they are different. God's grace has now established man from a new beginning, and so a new way. It is now not living everyday to die to self, but rather it is now living every day to live from a rebirth, from self in Christ. ( No need to chase down my sin nature in Christ as if a routine it as with the law.)

The departure gate for the new man is from Christ who came to redeem. ( Joy to the world.) .The departure gate for the old man is his misery that Christ would one day come to him. For the new man of faith sin is exceptional and a personal scandal if he/she sins, for the old man sin is his/her ordinary as there is no Christ to calm the sin full seas. The pain of sin is more acute in the newest man because he/she has known life without sin. It was the exception to the old that one would be full of grace as Mary was. It is not an exception to the new man.

I'm debating this scripture bit, because no amount of killing with it will do what Jesus did for man. If it's purpose in you was to kill you might want to consider Christ in a new light--which God made available to you to stop all the killings. A man/a woman is not born again if he/she remains old.

" Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” "

When Adam and Eve were to animal skins to hide their shame, they were to a new way. When the temple veil is said to have been rent, their children were to a new way.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

It seems to me when it comes to the way (s) of God, God has more than one way with man. The way of God is many.
 
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The heart of stone vs the law might be one way and the heart of flesh harmonious with the Lord might make another. Now it can be argued that it was always this way. And so the law killed the old man, the old heart, to make God plain to some. Yet for grace, or for the heart of flesh, through Christ, God makes his new man alive to make God plain to some.

If I die I die not to the law now, but I have died to the old man with Christ's death and with out the law, and so made alive without the law. Perhaps that in the law I would not even have made the minimum bar of being a remnant-- sometimes having bowed the knee!

So the new way vs the old way has a different departure point-- in this they are different. God's grace has now established man from a new beginning, and so a new way. It is now not living everyday to die to self, but rather it is now living every day to live from a rebirth, from self in Christ. ( No need to chase down my sin nature in Christ as if a routine it as with the law.)

The departure gate for the new man is from Christ who came to redeem. ( Joy to the world.) .The departure gate for the old man is his misery that Christ would one day come to him. For the new man of faith sin is exceptional and a personal scandal if he/she sins, for the old man sin is his/her ordinary as there is no Christ to calm the sin full seas. The pain of sin is more acute in the newest man because he/she has known life without sin. It was the exception to the old that one would be full of grace as Mary was. It is not an exception to the new man.

I'm debating this scripture bit, because no amount of killing with it will do what Jesus did for man. If it's purpose in you was to kill you might want to consider Christ in a new light--which God made available to you to stop all the killings. A man/a woman is not born again if he/she remains old.

" Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” "

When Adam and Eve were to animal skins to hide their shame, they were to a new way. When the temple veil is said to have been rent, their children were to a new way.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

It seems to me when it comes to the way (s) of God, God has more than one way with man. The way of God is many.
And so the law killed the old man, the old heart, to make God plain to some. Yet for grace, or for the heart of flesh, through Christ, God makes his new man alive to make God plain to some.
Yes, surely that of which Paul is inspired to say "So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." is of grace.
 
happy sabbath, my brothers. I love the book of Acts, since it shows what believers believed, and how they walked out their faith, many years after Jesus' ascension. It also shows us how our current faith differs from what the faith that the apostles and 1st century believers walked out. What we see is that, after several centuries, MEN changed things, not God. The catholic church admits to moving the sabbath to Sunday, and tell protestant churches, "Protestants can claim separation from the catholic church if they want, but as long as they worship on Sunday, they are the daughters of the Catholic Church".

In Acts 15, when discussing if circumcision was necessary FOR SALVATION, it was decided that these new gentile believers, who knew nothing at all about God's commands and instructions, should keep 4 easy ones and then in Acts 15:21 (a verse that most christians ignore) they tell us that it was expected that Gentiles would learn Torah every sabbath in the synagogues. We see that very thing happening throughout the remainder of Acts; Jews and Gentiles meeting on sabbath in the synagogues to learn.

In Acts 21, we read how - late in his life - that Paul, too, and the leaders of the church, kept the commandments in walking 'upright' before God, even though he knew it was not for salvation.

Consider showing God that you love Him (not for salvation) in the only way He has asked us to.... by obeying His commandments. I John 5:3 John 14:12, 21 If you don't want to obey, then hold on to faith for salvation and live in grace.
 
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