Coram Deo

[Bob2010]

I am not nearly as sophisticated as many on this forum are. I once tried to pick a fight on the atheist page. Sad that they knew more about the bible than myself and most of my church members did. Lots of bitterness towards the church. I don't want to poke the bear again here. I teach kids at Sunday School every week. We ditch the format and read the scripture and discuss it. You would be amazed at what kids can retain and learn! They love getting the truth straight from the bible. We have been on a long run of studying Paul's various letters to the church. Infact last week we covered Paul turning from his Jewish earned grace, law abiding righteousness, and his prideful pure Jewish heritage. He turned to the point where he decided to stop trying to offer his Jewish people Christ. Instead he would focus his attention on offering the Gentiles salvation. Seems salvation and grace though faith and love in Jesus Christ was better recieved by the Gentiles. Interesting that this forum lumps Christianity and Judaism together. Back in biblical days this was necessary. Christianity was a sect of Judaism. Rome considered us Christians to be a problem for Judaism. Not for the courts of Rome to deal with. So I wonder why we are lumped together here on this forum? Dumb luck? Is the hope that those of us that are saved and enjoying the freedom from our sins found through the Lord Jesus may offer hope and salvation to those that have denied Jesus as Lord? Or are we Christians still just a sect of Judaism?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I am not nearly as sophisticated as many on this forum are. I once tried to pick a fight on the atheist page. Sad that they knew more about the bible than myself and most of my church members did. Lots of bitterness towards the church. I don't want to poke the bear again here. I teach kids at Sunday School every week. We ditch the format and read the scripture and discuss it. You would be amazed at what kids can retain and learn! They love getting the truth straight from the bible. We have been on a long run of studying Paul's various letters to the church. Infact last week we covered Paul turning from his Jewish earned grace, law abiding righteousness, and his prideful pure Jewish heritage. He turned to the point where he decided to stop trying to offer his Jewish people Christ. Instead he would focus his attention on offering the Gentiles salvation. Seems salvation and grace though faith and love in Jesus Christ was better recieved by the Gentiles. Interesting that this forum lumps Christianity and Judaism together. Back in biblical days this was necessary. Christianity was a sect of Judaism. Rome considered us Christians to be a problem for Judaism. Not for the courts of Rome to deal with. So I wonder why we are lumped together here on this forum? Dumb luck? Is the hope that those of us that are saved and enjoying the freedom from our sins found through the Lord Jesus may offer hope and salvation to those that have denied Jesus as Lord? Or are we Christians still just a sect of Judaism?

So I wonder why we are lumped together here on this forum?

Maybe because Christianity sprouted from Judaism. Maybe it's just a catch-all forum created for everything that doesn't fit the other forums. I dunno.

Is the hope that those of us that are saved and enjoying the freedom from our sins found through the Lord Jesus may offer hope and salvation to those that have denied Jesus as Lord?

Well if that would pretty much fit the broad definition of The Gospel

Or are we Christians still just a sect of Judaism?

Nope. Christianity is all encompassing, to include the religion of Judaism. It swallows them all up. It's not a splinter off of Judaism although in the Early Church Age it was considered as such by those outside of it, but never those within it.

 

[Bob2010]

Agree completely. It's just interesting to me they grouped us together. Its almost like they grouped us with aitheiest. That's extreme but the Jewish people and the Christians have been butting heads for years. Martin Luther and Paul hit that wall and moved on. They killed Jesus! I just wonder if any thinking went into the the grouping on the forum.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Agree completely. It's just interesting to me they grouped us together. Its almost like they grouped us with aitheiest. That's extreme but the Jewish people and the Christians have been butting heads for years. Martin Luther and Paul hit that wall and moved on. They killed Jesus! I just wonder if any thinking went into the the grouping on the forum.

Even Atheist believe in something, but it's probably more accurate to classify people as either Theist or Non-Theist and then go from there. Atheist are a sub-set of Non-Theist. Everybody believes in something. Non Theist believe in no God, but that in itself is a belief and Atheism is just one belief system that flows from that assumption Just as Theist can be further subdivided into the various belief systems they subscribe to Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, etc, and then further into Baptist, Catholic, etc. Non-Theist can be subdivided into the subsequent beliefs they subscribe to Atheism, Agnosticism, Skepticism, etc. and Atheist can be further subdivided into Humanist, Freethinkers, etc. Like I said. Everyone believes in something. Believing something/someone doesn't exist is still belief and is a point very few get when arguing separation of church and state. It would have been great if the Framers of the Constitution had the insight to recognize this, but they missed it too, as does the Supreme Court. Every time they rule against "The Church" and their belief system, they don't get that by doing so they are in fact, ruling in favor of another belief system, just as many Non Theist don't consider the fact that by denying one belief system, they are in fact, subscribing to another.

 

[Israel]

I ain't been around since its inception but from what I understand the AAA forum was formed by a request submitted after the "spiritual" forum was already here.

A place where they too might discuss...

 

[Artfuldodger]

If you read Romans 11, you will see the connection.

 

[Bob2010]

If you read Romans 11, you will see the connection.

I understand the connection in the bible and with Paul. Saul was as pure a jew as anyone. I also see Paul hoping to make his own Jewish people envious of salvation in Hope's a few will turn to Christ. Then you also have the hardening of the heart done by God. The non elect will be sacrificed for the elect. In the case of Roman's 11 the elect appear to be Gentiles. Seems the forum group could be Judaism Pharisees and Sadducees. Then Christianity elect and non elect. Lol! I am joking. Surely the forum creators were not just trying to make the Jewish people envious of our salvation? Or insinuating that God made the Jewish heart hard therefore they will never love Jesus? I mean if this is a shared page we must be able to talk about what the bible says about earning salvation through works verse grace and faith in Christ. Is this appropriate forum for me to ask why Jewish people don't sacrifice animals to be forgiven for thier sins?

 

[Bob2010]

Even Atheist believe in something, but it's probably more accurate to classify people as either Theist or Non-Theist and then go from there. Atheist are a sub-set of Non-Theist. Everybody believes in something. Non Theist believe in no God, but that in itself is a belief and Atheism is just one belief system that flows from that assumption Just as Theist can be further subdivided into the various belief systems they subscribe to Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, etc, and then further into Baptist, Catholic, etc. Non-Theist can be subdivided into the subsequent beliefs they subscribe to Atheism, Agnosticism, Skepticism, etc. and Atheist can be further subdivided into Humanist, Freethinkers, etc. Like I said. Everyone believes in something. Believing something/someone doesn't exist is still belief and is a point very few get when arguing separation of church and state. It would have been great if the Framers of the Constitution had the insight to recognize this, but they missed it too, as does the Supreme Court. Every time they rule against "The Church" and their belief system, they don't get that by doing so they are in fact, ruling in favor of another belief system, just as many Non Theist don't consider the fact that by denying one belief system, they are in fact, subscribing to another.

Without Christ and the bible there is no real moral compass. Belief in anything beyond that is idol worship. Any belief outside of Christ leaves us making our own rules and acting as if we are a God.

 

[gordon 2]

Some of evangelical [which are bible based] churches ( believers), understand that Israel is intertwined to Christianity. In the past yes. But especially in end time prophecy.

1."The tenet of Christian Zionism is that God’s promise of the Holy Land to the Jews is eternal. It’s not just something in antiquity,” Oldmixon said. “When we talk about the Holy Land, God’s promise of the Holy Land, we’re talking about real estate on both sides of the Jordan River. So the sense of a greater Israel and expansionism is really important to this community. Jerusalem is just central to that. It’s viewed as a historical and biblical capital.”

2.“What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,” Pastor Nate Pyle told Newsweek in January.





Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

 

[Madman]

I am not nearly as sophisticated as many on this forum are. I once tried to pick a fight on the atheist page. Sad that they knew more about the bible than myself and most of my church members did. Lots of bitterness towards the church. I don't want to poke the bear again here. I teach kids at Sunday School every week. We ditch the format and read the scripture and discuss it. You would be amazed at what kids can retain and learn! They love getting the truth straight from the bible. We have been on a long run of studying Paul's various letters to the church. Infact last week we covered Paul turning from his Jewish earned grace, law abiding righteousness, and his prideful pure Jewish heritage. He turned to the point where he decided to stop trying to offer his Jewish people Christ. Instead he would focus his attention on offering the Gentiles salvation. Seems salvation and grace though faith and love in Jesus Christ was better recieved by the Gentiles. Interesting that this forum lumps Christianity and Judaism together. Back in biblical days this was necessary. Christianity was a sect of Judaism. Rome considered us Christians to be a problem for Judaism. Not for the courts of Rome to deal with. So I wonder why we are lumped together here on this forum? Dumb luck? Is the hope that those of us that are saved and enjoying the freedom from our sins found through the Lord Jesus may offer hope and salvation to those that have denied Jesus as Lord? Or are we Christians still just a sect of Judaism?

The Church that Christ Jesus started is the fulfillment of what was began with Israel. There is a lot of history there.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Count me as one who has been “lumped together” with our brother Judah. It’s not hard to see that although our faith began with Jews, MEN removed anything that looked “Jewish” about our faith (ie Sabbath, Feasts, etc). God didn’t do it; men did it.

Don’t want to derail this thread but we (my family and me) keep sabbath and GOD’S - not the Jews’ - feast days. It has revolutionized my walk with our Messiah

 

[Artfuldodger]

I understand the connection in the bible and with Paul. Saul was as pure a jew as anyone. I also see Paul hoping to make his own Jewish people envious of salvation in Hope's a few will turn to Christ. Then you also have the hardening of the heart done by God. The non elect will be sacrificed for the elect. In the case of Roman's 11 the elect appear to be Gentiles. Seems the forum group could be Judaism Pharisees and Sadducees. Then Christianity elect and non elect. Lol! I am joking. Surely the forum creators were not just trying to make the Jewish people envious of our salvation? Or insinuating that God made the Jewish heart hard therefore they will never love Jesus? I mean if this is a shared page we must be able to talk about what the bible says about earning salvation through works verse grace and faith in Christ. Is this appropriate forum for me to ask why Jewish people don't sacrifice animals to be forgiven for thier sins?

Romans 11 shows that God's covenant with physical Israel can't be done away with. It shows that their eyes were blinded to let salvation go out to the Gentiles. It then tells the we are grafted into that nation as for as salvation is concerned.
Do not be ignorant of this mystery/secret;
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
After that God will remove all sin from Israel. "And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins."

 

[Artfuldodger]

You have to start with the fact that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. We see this in Romans 11 when a Remnant was chosen by grace and not works otherwise it would not be grace. After that Romans 11 talks about how Israel is still loved because of the patriarchs. That part of their covenant still stands. God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.
Paul tells us we won't understand this concept/mystery/secret.

33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?”…

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Keep in mind that Paul tells us in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2 that, once we accept Jesus and His atoning work, we are grafted into Gods nation - Israel. We who were “once Gentiles” The New Covenant was to be with Judah and Israel. Btw, only Israel gets to enter the New Jerusalem.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Keep in mind that Paul tells us in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2 that, once we accept Jesus and His atoning work, we are grafted into Gods nation - Israel. We who were “once Gentiles” The New Covenant was to be with Judah and Israel. Btw, only Israel gets to enter the New Jerusalem.

Ephesians 2 also says;
15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Without Christ and the bible there is no real moral compass. Belief in anything beyond that is idol worship. Any belief outside of Christ leaves us making our own rules and acting as if we are a God.

I think all men have a moral compass, God's witness(for lack of a better term) inside of us. Paul talks about it when he said " For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.", but the longer and the more one denies that witness the more faint it becomes. Eventually it becomes completely inaudible, drowned out by the selfish desires of the individual. Man can only worship and serve one master: God or himself, as you alluded to above.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Ephesians 2 also says;
15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees.

And then, in Ephesians 6, Paul tells us to obey a commandment. Lol

Eph 6:2. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

So, you believe that Jesus abolished the Law?

 

[Bob2010]

You have to start with the fact that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. We see this in Romans 11 when a Remnant was chosen by grace and not works otherwise it would not be grace. After that Romans 11 talks about how Israel is still loved because of the patriarchs. That part of their covenant still stands. God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.
Paul tells us we won't understand this concept/mystery/secret.

33 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?”…

I believe God loves all of us. That certainly does not mean he will save all of us.

 

[Artfuldodger]

And then, in Ephesians 6, Paul tells us to obey a commandment. Lol

Eph 6:2. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

So, you believe that Jesus abolished the Law?

Plus Paul came out with all those rule about women. What they can wear and not wear. What they can do and not do. Who is their head, etc. Paul kinda goes back and forth between rules and grace.
One passage he's all about that grace, another he's all about the rules.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I believe God loves all of us. That certainly does not mean he will save all of us.

Yet he didn't blind all of us like he did the Jews in Romans 11. It appears that God chose a remnant by grace and hardened the rest, His choice, to let salvation go out into the world.

I can't say that I agree with what God did in Romans 11. Paul even said who am I to question what God did in Romans 11. God had a covenant with Israel. Romans 11 says all sin will be removed from Zion.

29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?" 35“Who has first given to God, that God should repay him?”