Creating Transgendered Persimmon Trees: Updated 14 months later

[NCHillbilly]

Thought I’d bump this as it’s very interesting , I’m about to take your advice and do a google search and try to learn more, hillbilly what is the biggest tree you’ve cut down and grafted I have some males as big as your leg and do u just take your cutting at the rt time and put it against the trunk and wrap it with the parafilm or do u remove the bark and what do u put on top of the tree u cut down, sorry for all the questions, but I’m definitely gonna try this, this year

The biggest ones I've grafted so far have been about 3" diameter, maybe 4". Once they get big enough so that the bark gets rough, they're really hard to do.

In order to get grafts to take, you have to keep the cambium layers of the rootstock and scion in contact. That, and timing and not letting anything dry out at all are the keys. What I have been doing with the persimmons is bark grafting. You cut the scion wood in the winter when it's dormant and keep it in the refrigerator to keep it dormant. Then, you wait until the rootstock is fully leafed out and the sap flowing, so that the bark will sli[. You saw the rootstock off, then carefully make a vertical cut a couple inches long and seperate the bark from the wood. Then you cut the base of the scion in a wedge shape, and force it between the bark and wood, then wrap it. You need to apply something to the wound to keep it from drying out. Grafting wax or non-silicone caulking work well.

There are several bark-grafting videos on Youtube, a video is worth a thousand words.

 

[antharper]

The biggest ones I've grafted so far have been about 3" diameter, maybe 4". Once they get big enough so that the bark gets rough, they're really hard to do.

In order to get grafts to take, you have to keep the cambium layers of the rootstock and scion in contact. That, and timing and not letting anything dry out at all are the keys. What I have been doing with the persimmons is bark grafting. You cut the scion wood in the winter when it's dormant and keep it in the refrigerator to keep it dormant. Then, you wait until the rootstock is fully leafed out and the sap flowing, so that the bark will sli[. You saw the rootstock off, then carefully make a vertical cut a couple inches long and seperate the bark from the wood. Then you cut the base of the scion in a wedge shape, and force it between the bark and wood, then wrap it. You need to apply something to the wound to keep it from drying out. Grafting wax or non-silicone caulking work well.

There are several bark-grafting videos on Youtube, a video is worth a thousand words.

Thanks a lot , I’ve been watching the videos for about an hour , seems easy enough , I’ve got several that are probably to big but may try a few anyway , and tons of small ones I’m gonna do , this kind of stuff is really interesting to me !

 

[Howard Roark]

Have you grafted oriental persimmon onto male trees. I have often thought of doing so.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Thanks a lot , I’ve been watching the videos for about an hour , seems easy enough , I’ve got several that are probably to big but may try a few anyway , and tons of small ones I’m gonna do , this kind of stuff is really interesting to me !

The perfect size to me is about 1" diameter. Most of them I do are anywhere from about 1/2" to 2". I've been getting probably 90% success rate on persimmons. They're one of the easiest species to graft, besides maybe apples and pears. I have also grafted a good many mulberries, fruiting pears onto bradford pear seedlings, Apple onto wild crabapple, etc.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Have you grafted oriental persimmon onto male trees. I have often thought of doing so.

Yes. We grafted some Fuyu and another cultivar of Japanese persimmon that I don't remember offhand onto some wild seedlings last year. I think some of the selctions/cultivars of American persimmon are better than the Japs, though, for wildlife purposes. Meader and Yates are my two favorites so far. Fast growth, very heavy fruiting, somewhat self-fertile, and the persimmons are 2-3x the size of the average wild one.

 

[Howard Roark]

Yes. We grafted some Fuyu and another cultivar of Japanese persimmon that I don't remember offhand onto some wild seedlings last year. I think some of the selctions/cultivars of American persimmon are better than the Japs, though, for wildlife purposes. Meader and Yates are my two favorites so far. Fast growth, very heavy fruiting, somewhat self-fertile, and the persimmons are 2-3x the size of the average wild one.

They drop so late in the year is the one biggest problem

 

[NCHillbilly]

They drop so late in the year is the one biggest problem

Which ones? The ones I mentioned usually drop from late September-early November. The Meaders and Yates are about all gone by late October. The straight native ones are often still dropping in early-mid December.

 

[Howard Roark]

Oriental percommions seem to hold on until January. There is a loaded tree down the street from our home.

 

[Forest Grump]

Oriental percommions seem to hold on until January. There is a loaded tree down the street from our home.

The main issue with Oriental persimmons is, (once they stop dropping early), they stay on the tree until they are virtually rotten. They are prolific, consistent, and slow growing.

Better to go with the cultivars he mentioned, or graft to known females on your property that bear heavily. Stark Bros has one called Prok that is a good, self-fertile selection also.

 

[Jim Boyd]

This is a GREAT thread and I am I on board this winter and into the spring.
I have a zillion juvenile persimmons and I fear a zillion juvenile Bradford pears also.

Maybe I can take some scions from the 5 varieties of pears I planted this year (they are 6-10’ tall now) and graft them on to the base of an existing Bradford pear root stock???

I will be trying to learn between now and then.

 

[NCHillbilly]

This is a GREAT thread and I am I on board this winter and into the spring.
I have a zillion juvenile persimmons and I fear a zillion juvenile Bradford pears also.

Maybe I can take some scions from the 5 varieties of pears I planted this year (they are 6-10’ tall now) and graft them on to the base of an existing Bradford pear root stock???

I will be trying to learn between now and then.

I have had pretty good results bark grafting pear scions onto Bradford seedlings, but it's better it the rootstock is at least 1/2" in diameter. An inch is even better.

 

[Jim Boyd]

I have had pretty good results bark grafting pear scions onto Bradford seedlings, but it's better it the rootstock is at least 1/2" in diameter. An inch is even better.

Now that I have half an idea about what to look for, I will be all over it.

 

[SRShunter]

This is a GREAT thread and I am I on board this winter and into the spring.
I have a zillion juvenile persimmons and I fear a zillion juvenile Bradford pears also.

Maybe I can take some scions from the 5 varieties of pears I planted this year (they are 6-10’ tall now) and graft them on to the base of an existing Bradford pear root stock???

I will be trying to learn between now and then.

You're a great steward of the land JB, sure wished we had more folks around like yourself

 

[Jim Boyd]

You're a great steward of the land JB, sure wished we had more folks around like yourself

SRS, I am not sure that I am such a great steward or is it that I just yap about it more???

Thanks for your kind comments and I am just trying to keep up with folks like you!

Can’t spill the beans yet but may have a good announcement in a few weeks....

Be safe brother!!!!

 

[snipe stalker]

Have y'all had better luck with pears vs persimmon grafts taking? Or vice versa?

 

[Jim Boyd]

I am late getting into this game and I walked this weekend doing a tree survey.

Many of the trees, I cannot sex - I think the flowers are already gone?

I marked many male trees and a good supply of female trees.

Some of the latter appear to be heavy bearing this year and it is from this group that I will harvest my scions this coming winter.

Did my walking in tennis shoes and shorts, I know better and am def gonna have poison on my legs.

Will def pull scions from this tree....

 

[ucfireman]

So followed this thread and results are nice.
So I have some persimmon seedlings that popped up this year. I want to try this.

First I need to move a few around. Do persimmons take to replanting OK? Should I leave them in place and do the graft then move them next fall or move them this fall and graft them in the spring?

Second, the little ones are about pencil size, do you cut the whole top off and then graft the scion as the only stem/leader? or do you just pick 1-2 limbs and do those?

Third when do you take the scion cuttings?

I have never grafted plants before but want to try it.

 

[NCHillbilly]

A representative graft from a couple years ago. It’s about 2.5” trunk now, about 12’ tall, and loaded with fruit:

 

[ucfireman]

Any idea on how old or tall the tree needs to be before they fruit? I have a few seedlings that I'm waiting to see what they do and need to move 1-2 around.

And did you just graft all you wanted or did you have some that you were sure were males? that you grafted?

 

[NCHillbilly]

Any idea on how old or tall the tree needs to be before they fruit? I have a few seedlings that I'm waiting to see what they do and need to move 1-2 around.

And did you just graft all you wanted or did you have some that you were sure were males? that you grafted?

They will usually start fruiting the next year after grafting. I usually graft males, but either one will work.