Did Jesus claim to be the messiah?

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
The difference spotlite is that you cannot even show me the pond and THAT is why I believe there are no fish in it!!!!!
(Bible) You claimed you swam in it......

There are things in there that absolutely work exactly the way scripture lays it out. And outside of the Bible there is absolutely zero information / explanation of it other than, and even for yourself - “I don’t know”. And until you experience it, you won’t know. :cheers:
 
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ambush80

Senior Member
(Bible) You claimed you swam in it......

There are things in there that absolutely work exactly the way scripture lays it out. And outside of the Bible there is absolutely zero information / explanation of it other than, and even for yourself - “I don’t know”. And until you experience it, you won’t know. :cheers:
Can you list some of these things?
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Koresh's followers had a mindset, a belief which they felt need not be written down also.
How valid do you take them to have been?

What about the validity of some people who heard about Koresh from survivors and write it down 50 to 100 years later?
Heck would you believe a Waco Fire survivor(got out before) if they wrote a book now??
My post was not directed at belief of something in general, but an addressing of the messiah aspect. Whether it's accepted as truth or not, the topic at the moment, or my assumption of such, seemed to be about the Jews declaring Jesus did not fill in the check boxes of their messianic expectations. And how the NT writers addressed this, was it reverse engineering or not? My point being they seemingly were not attempting to show or prove, as if they assumed it so... as if they were not having to prove it so in their circles.... As if they were not under scrutiny over it... etc. Does not prove anything, I know... just interesting
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Can you list some of these things?
LOL, bible predictions that come true to validate it's inspiration.... This is amazing to me. And the bible nailed it. How could writers of that day ever predicted such. The trinity, the 666. The trinity Jesus claiming to be God, just as the bible predicted that the antichrist, the imposter christ, would claim to be god, would steal the real Christ identity, deceive the bride, defile her, making her a wh0re, a city on 7 hills, which is Rome, the foundation of the trinity from which many trin churches derived.

"Come out from her my people"
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Can you list some of these things?
Not interested in another 3 ring circus on here. :cheers:

LOL, bible predictions that come true to validate it's inspiration.... This is amazing to me. And the bible nailed it. How could writers of that day ever predicted such. The trinity, the 666. The trinity Jesus claiming to be God, just as the bible predicted that the antichrist, the imposter christ, would claim to be god, would steal the real Christ identity, deceive the bride, defile her, making her a wh0re, a city on 7 hills, which is Rome, the foundation of the trinity from which many trin churches derived.

"Come out from her my people"
Lol it had nothing to do with predictions. Thus is a fine example that I gave bullet about non believers trying to explain this :wink:
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
My post was not directed at belief of something in general, but an addressing of the messiah aspect. Whether it's accepted as truth or not, the topic at the moment, or my assumption of such, seemed to be about the Jews declaring Jesus did not fill in the check boxes of their messianic expectations. And how the NT writers addressed this, was it reverse engineering or not? My point being they seemingly were not attempting to show or prove, as if they assumed it so... as if they were not having to prove it so in their circles.... As if they were not under scrutiny over it... etc. Does not prove anything, I know... just interesting
I would also say.... that the lack of... NT writer trying to fill a check list of messianic expectations... reveals dating of the writing. Meaning, surely in the days and year of Jesus, did he fulfill these expectations was certainly foremost on everyone mind. Surely there were conversation, discussion, debate, argument, fighting, etc.. over this topic, thus giving the NT writer the mindset that he needed to justify this jesus as the Messiah. Example, food sacrificed to idols was a conflict in the days of Paul, thus he wrote about it, clarifying, making his case. But in the NT writings, this seems to be assumed, thus leading me to believe it was written much later than originally thought
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Not interested in another 3 ring circus on here. :cheers:


Lol it had nothing to do with predictions. Thus is a fine example that I gave bullet about non believers trying to explain this :wink:
I will agree that one of us is deceived, but which one? Only time will tell
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
In my trinitarian days from my up bringing, I used to think that Rev 13 displayed an evil copy of the trinity. The 3 beast, 3 in 1 of the dragon. Again in Rev 16:13, dragon, beast and prophet. Fatal wound of 2nd, causing fire to come down of the 3rd, the 3 part mark [F,S and HS]. Is it an evil copy? Ask yourself also... why have you never made this connection?
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
(Bible) You claimed you swam in it......

There are things in there that absolutely work exactly the way scripture lays it out. And outside of the Bible there is absolutely zero information / explanation of it other than, and even for yourself - “I don’t know”. And until you experience it, you won’t know. :cheers:
Spot, There are so many ponds to swim in then. So many neither of us have even dipped a toe in. So many where the fish bite just as well (ya know, if ya have the "right" bait)
By your own words, you have not given the others a chance. You have not experienced them so you don't know.
I have just eliminated one more pond than you. I am not thinking about catching fish, i am not satisfied feeling like I've caught fish, Spotlite where are your fish?
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I will agree that one of us is deceived, but which one? Only time will tell
How would you be able to agree to that??? You don’t even know what I’m talking about yet.
 
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Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Spot, There are so many ponds to swim in then. So many neither of us have even dipped a toe in. So many where the fish bite just as well (ya know, if ya have the "right" bait)
By your own words, you have not given the others a chance. You have not experienced them so you don't know.
I have just eliminated one more pond than you. I am not thinking about catching fish, i am not satisfied feeling like I've caught fish, Spotlite where are your fish?
One problem though - since we have both eliminated all but the one, there’s only the one left that we disagree on - not much need in considering all the others??

Some folks just can’t catch fish because they think they know more than the fish. Since I’m not a socialist, you gotta figure out how to catch your own. You thinking I don’t have any holds as much water as a bucket full of holes.

Now go have fun with this. I’m headed to my lease to get ready for tomorrow.
 
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1gr8bldr

Senior Member
I will agree that one of us is deceived, but which one? Only time will tell
You implied that I was a non believer. trying to explain the bible. I agree that a non believer can not explain the bible, one of us is a non believer [of the truth], deceived
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
One problem though - since we have both eliminated all but the one, there’s only the one left that we disagree on - not much need in considering all the others??

Some folks just can’t catch fish because they think they know more than the fish. Since I’m not a socialist, you gotta figure out how to catch your own. You thinking I don’t have any holds as much water as a bucket full of holes.

Now go have fun with this. I’m headed to my lease to get ready for tomorrow.
In Clara Pellar's voice..Spotlite, Where's the Fish?
It is one thing to brag about being a good fisherman and another to show us the fish.
Empty Micky D's wrappers don't cut it.

Ps, every bucket has at least one hole.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
Not interested in another 3 ring circus on here. :cheers:


Lol it had nothing to do with predictions. Thus is a fine example that I gave bullet about non believers trying to explain this :wink:
I'm asking in the most sincere way possible.

I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't know how this might be construed as an indictment of my character or intentions. I think I've demonstrated over the past ten years that I ask questions in good faith with no malicious intent, only with the intent of furthering the conversation.
 
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Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I'm asking in the most sincere way possible.

I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't know how this might be construed as an indictment of my character or intentions. I think I've demonstrated over the past ten years that I ask questions in good faith with no malicious intent, only with the intent of furthering the conversation.
I know you are and I should have been more clear. I have the upmost respect for you in the way that you conduct yourself with your questions / debates.

What I mean with the 3 ring circus comment is we’ve went down that road and we just won’t agree. No harm meant, just don’t see it being productive, since I will have nothing new to bring to the table for evidence. Just being honest.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
You implied that I was a non believer. trying to explain the bible. I agree that a non believer can not explain the bible, one of us is a non believer [of the truth], deceived
I guess what I’m saying is you really don’t know what I’m referring to with my comment because you eluded to predictions, so I’m just wondering how you’d know in advance of who’s wrong.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
I know you are and I should have been more clear. I have the upmost respect for you in the way that you conduct yourself with your questions / debates.

What I mean with the 3 ring circus comment is we’ve went down that road and we just won’t agree. No harm meant, just don’t see it being productive, since I will have nothing new to bring to the table for evidence. Just being honest.
I'm asking for your testimony. I figured you would jump at the chance to give it.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I don't recall you ever relating any parts where any promises the Gospel makes have ever come true in your experience.
Sure I have. Remember my back issue????? My buddy that was deaf from birth to 14?? My daughter diagnosed with situs inversus? I was in the X-ray room both times due to her age.

Remember the example I gave of how the spirit works within a body of Christ??? How I was visiting an out of state church while working, the minister pulled me off to the side one on one and read my mail about a situation?? Told me exactly who I needed to contact (by name) and it worked out exactly the way he said it would. This just happened again within the last few weeks. These are things I told no one so there was no one else that could have gotten word to either of them. They were very specific and accurate.

It’s not all about predictions and history. These are things that happen to the Christian that make what you call a contradiction over wording, translations, etc seem a lot less important. These are things that work in our daily lives and outside of scripture there’s absolutely no explanation of them other than clueless doctors. No I haven’t healed a broken bone or raised the dead but I honestly don’t Know if I have that kind of faith to try that and if you apply that scripture accurately, it takes faith. Plus if you apply everything accurately, even a husband honoring his wife so his prayers aren’t hindered.......there’s more to it than one scripture.

I don’t really care who wrote what and when, when it works, it works.
 
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