Did Jesus claim to be the messiah?

[ambush80]

I’m cool with questions. What I don’t entertain is when one is telling me what I didn’t witness.

How about if someone wants to question whether or not your interpretation of an event was accurate? For example, is it possible that the deaf boy was suffering from a psychosomatic condition? Greta Thunberg became mute because of a mental illness.

 

[bullethead]

"So me questioning you is to bounce my hangups off you to see if you have something that I may have overlooked."

Sounds to me like you think there might be some "there, there".

It's like the Penn State Football Scandal (that had nothing to do with Penn State Football)
I was there for football camp and Jerry Sandusky never hit on me. So glad he did not, but ya get to wondering why not? Wasnt I cute enough?
Similarly,
Why didnt a god pick me?

Anyone that truly knows me would be laughing at the PSU reference. I have a twisted sense oh humor, I am not sick...
Lolololololol

 

[ambush80]

Yeah I believe that’s called wishful thinking. I flip a coin and it matches my prayer then my prayer was answered. If not I ignore the result and go to the next coin flip. As Sam says, this is how you play tennis without the net. If a methodology can be used to confirm any superstition it isn’t much of a methodology.

The difference is that we can go dig up your backyard. A claim like "There is a god in another plane of existence who communicates with me and listens to my problems and acts on my requests" offers nowhere to dig.

 

[Spotlite]

How about if someone wants to question whether or not your interpretation of an event was accurate? For example, is it possible that the deaf boy was suffering from a psychosomatic condition? Greta Thunberg became mute because of a mental illness.

I guess anything is possible. But, his doctor said he was 90% in one ear and 100% in the other. Not sure what conditions could cause that other than just deaf.

 

[atlashunter]

Y

You can’t test it atlas, even if the Bible is fictional, it tells you why you can’t, if you are to have faith. There’s a whole bunch of scripture on prayer and faith besides John. You gotta use them all.

Let’s explore this further. Tell me why you think you can’t test it?

 

[bullethead]

The difference is that we can go dig up your backyard. A claim like "There is a god in another plane of existence who communicates with me and listens to my problems and acts on my requests" offers nowhere to dig.

That's why you gotta dig that mind!!

 

[atlashunter]

The difference is that we can go dig up your backyard. A claim like "There is a god in another plane of existence who communicates with me and listens to my problems and acts on my requests" offers nowhere to dig.

That last part is a great place to dig. If you claimed the deists god I would agree. Once you make the claim all things which you ask with faith you will receive them you’ve made a testable claim.

 

[ambush80]

You can’t test it atlas, even if the Bible is fictional, it tells you why you can’t, if you are to have faith. There’s a whole bunch of scripture on prayer and faith besides John. You gotta use them all.

There's so much "boiler plate" doctrine available to dismiss your line of questioning.

1) It tells you you can't
2) God is not your plaything to put to tests
3) If it can be proven then there's no need for faith
4) How much greater the faith (piety) of those who have not see yet believe?
5) We can't understand it with our carnal minds
......

And on, and on, and on.

 

[Spotlite]

How about if someone wants to question whether or not your interpretation of an event was accurate? For example, is it possible that the deaf boy was suffering from a psychosomatic condition? Greta Thunberg became mute because of a mental illness.

I will give you one to pick at. Me personally, a few weeks back my Pastor called me off to the side about a situation that I’ve said nothing to no one about. Situation I have been meddling in my mind since around June / July. I planned to talk to him about it, put it of a month, then two months, decided first of year. He read my mail accurately word for word on my own thoughts about the whole situation, even the timeline.

What happened? How’d he know word for word phrases, the situation that had nothing to do with church, the timeline and exactly what I thought about to go about handling it? If I’d told anyone, yea, maybe they let it slip. But I didn’t even tell my wife.

 

[Spotlite]

1) It tells you you can't
2) God is not your plaything to put to tests
3) If it can be proven then there's no need for faith
4) How much greater the faith (piety) of those who have not see yet believe?
5) We can't understand it with our carnal minds
......

And on, and on, and on.

Not exactly. Because you remove Gods will for one. Then you gotta consider the Pharisees, then consider judges where God was tired of hearing Israel waisted cries, etc. Your list isn’t even on my radar.

 

[WaltL1]

It's like the Penn State Football Scandal (that had nothing to do with Penn State Football)
I was there for football camp and Jerry Sandusky never hit on me. So glad he did not, but ya get to wondering why not? Wasnt I cute enough?
Similarly,
Why didnt a god pick me?

Anyone that truly knows me would be laughing at the PSU reference. I have a twisted sense oh humor, I am not sick...
Lolololololol

My friend that was actually a very interesting post.

 

[Spotlite]

Let’s explore this further. Tell me why you think you can’t test it?

Nope. Not doing your work.. You’re supposed to know the Bible well enough to understand the entire story cover to cover.

 

[bullethead]

I will give you one to pick at. Me personally, a few weeks back my Pastor called me off to the side about a situation that I’ve said nothing to no one about. Situation I have been meddling in my mind since around June / July. I planned to talk to him about it, put it of a month, then two months, decided first of year. He read my mail accurately word for word on my own thoughts about the whole situation, even the timeline.

What happened? How’d he know word for word phrases, the situation that had nothing to do with church, the timeline and exactly what I thought about to go about handling it? If I’d told anyone, yea, maybe they let it slip. But I didn’t even tell my wife.

Can you ask him what word Atlas has written down in his envelope?
I know that sounds insulting to you but if this guy is a mind reader or actually has an ear for god then he will be able to know, bot guess the word.

 

[ambush80]

That last part is a great place to dig. If you claimed the deists god I would agree. Once you make the claim all things which you ask with faith you will receive them you’ve made a testable claim.

I've had several believers give me their testimonies of "miracles". Some of them absolutely defy what I understand to be natural law. Some people say they "knew that the voice they heard was the god of Abraham". I asked "how did you know it was the god of Abraham that was responsible". They all say "I just knew". That's why I posted the Contact clip.

The way to test Jodie Foster's experience is to do it again with someone else. Many of the testimonies cannot be duplicated.

 

[ambush80]

I will give you one to pick at. Me personally, a few weeks back my Pastor called me off to the side about a situation that I’ve said nothing to no one about. Situation I have been meddling in my mind since around June / July. I planned to talk to him about it, put it of a month, then two months, decided first of year. He read my mail accurately word for word on my own thoughts about the whole situation, even the timeline.

What happened? How’d he know word for word phrases, the situation that had nothing to do with church, the timeline and exactly what I thought about to go about handling it? If I’d told anyone, yea, maybe they let it slip. But I didn’t even tell my wife.

Satan told him? He's a mind reader? He's you reincarnated from a passed life? My point is not to ridicule, it's to show that certain answers are untestable. You will pick the explanation, no matter how far fetched, that you want to believe.

 

[ambush80]

Can you ask him what word Atlas has written down in his envelope?
I know that sounds insulting to you but if this guy is a mind reader or actually has an ear for god then he will be able to know, bot guess the word.

God is not your plaything to interrogate.

 

[bullethead]

My friend that was actually a very interesting post.

I honestly wish you guys knew me better, I am SO behaved on here.

 

[atlashunter]

1) It tells you you can't
2) God is not your plaything to put to tests
3) If it can be proven then there's no need for faith
4) How much greater the faith (piety) of those who have not see yet believe?
5) We can't understand it with our carnal minds
......

And on, and on, and on.

And you do realize none of those hold water. If prayer works that means it alters the probability of something happening absent prayer. Otherwise, on what basis could one conclude prayer worked? That alteration of probability would be measurable whether it was part of a designed experiment or not. Matthew and John set a very high probability on the efficacy of prayer working provided it is made by a believer. They do not make caveats for ineffectiveness if testing god, etc. If those caveats are true then the scriptures that make no mention of them are not. Even then one would simply look at the situations which arose outside of a controlled experiment. Does prayer work in those cases and if so to what degree of probability? That question can be studied and answered.

And notice all these mental gymnastics being performed to try to fit these scriptures to the reality. If prayer met the standards set by these scriptures not only would that be unnecessary they would be the first scriptures and tests Christians would use to demonstrate the existence of their god.

 

[WaltL1]

I honestly wish you guys knew me better, I am SO behaved on here.

Oh believe me, I definitely appreciated the humor.

 

[ambush80]

And you do realize none of those hold water. If prayer works that means it alters the probability of something happening absent prayer. Otherwise, on what basis could one conclude prayer worked? That alteration of probability would be measurable whether it was part of a designed experiment or not. Matthew and John set a very high probability on the efficacy of prayer working provided it is made by a believer. They do not make caveats for ineffectiveness if testing god, etc. If those caveats are true then the scriptures that make no mention of them are not. Even then one would simply look at the situations which arose outside of a controlled experiment. Does prayer work in those cases and if so to what degree of probability? That question can be studied and answered.

And notice all these mental gymnastics being performed to try to fit these scriptures to the reality. If prayer met the standards set by these scriptures not only would that be unnecessary they would be the first scriptures and tests Christians would use to demonstrate the existence of their god.

That's what people do with contradictory beliefs.