Disappointed in church cancellations

[4HAND]

Israel, I’ve taken a few blows to the ole noggin in my 54 years. I’m an incredibly simple man, not very intellectual. I read your writings and literally feel dumb after reading them. Not saying they MAKE me dumber, it’s a “big word” thing?. Maybe you said this in your last comment, so forgive me if I repeat it. Another aspect of all of this is, how would non Christians or the un churched view Christianity if we just ignored the govt orders for the well being of ALL people? Our pastor eluded to that in his opening remarks of his first video. He also stated that it is clear that the govt is doing this for the people’s safety, and not some evil plot against Christianity. If ONLY churches were being targeted, the conversation would be profoundly different.

^^This Right Here^^

 

[Throwback]

From what I’ve read the first person in my county That died got it from going to church too

 

[StriperAddict]

Amen to the Israel post, ha!, even unto a lion's gnawing, there's grace for the timid hearts or the bold witness!

As to assembly, I'm very much a fan of goings on in meetings on FB (and YouTube) but carefully, as some meetings which try to build up - tear down, not intentionally perhaps. A right dividing is key. However, our minds and hearts are aware that Who came for the Building up of the greater (love, life, salvation, etc., call what you will), will come not with hand made buildings but of a sufficiency in Himself ever ready for any tribulation. Take courage in this time, beloved. Greater is He ...

Concerning meetings, etc., some of my favs have had live "backyard" meets, FB Live and some real gutsy encouragement from one to another. It is good for the heart to be strengthened in grace.

Encouraging one another in the faith and getting together using today's technology is a welcome relief in the storm.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Here’s why

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/georgia/...ting-virus-church/WHYT4XC3EJB4PPEP3B5FD37VAU/

From what I’ve read the first person in my county That died got it from going to church too

Why do you hate The Lord?

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Good to see a man in power who fears God, recognizes the 1st Amendment, and is unwilling to persecute Christians for continuing to "meet together." God bless Texas!

https://www.kxan.com/news/gov-abbot...ZqABjbGHxxfTEFFGYDaJ4cY_hxgMcoCYNkkR_0SAbQM58

 

[4HAND]

Good to see a man in power who fears God, recognizes the 1st Amendment, and is unwilling to persecute Christians for continuing to "meet together." God bless Texas!

https://www.kxan.com/news/gov-abbot...ZqABjbGHxxfTEFFGYDaJ4cY_hxgMcoCYNkkR_0SAbQM58

If you think this is persecution, you don't know the definition.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

If you think this is persecution, you don't know the definition.

So the police threatening to send in the National Guard is OK with you?

Forced church closures in violation of the 1st Amendment is a problem. Do they have to put Christians in jail for it to be persecution in your mind?

 

[4HAND]

So the police threatening to send in the National Guard is OK with you?

Forced church closures in violation of the 1st Amendment is a problem. Do they have to put Christians in jail for it to be persecution in your mind?

No sir. But this is not persecution.
Some churches in my area are not having services. Some are. We are having church tomorrow. We have taken measures in regard to social distancing. In the future we may wind up doing live stream or holding services outdoors. We have a large property & could have outside services with attendees spread out.
But if my state closes churches we will abide by that.
This is temporary.

In some areas courthouses, restaurants, businesses are all closing. Many social gatherings are being canceled or postponed. This is not an attempt by gov to close churches. This is to promote social distancing. Again, this is not persecution.

 

[Israel]

Israel, I’ve taken a few blows to the ole noggin in my 54 years. I’m an incredibly simple man, not very intellectual. I read your writings and literally feel dumb after reading them. Not saying they MAKE me dumber, it’s a “big word” thing?. Maybe you said this in your last comment, so forgive me if I repeat it. Another aspect of all of this is, how would non Christians or the un churched view Christianity if we just ignored the govt orders for the well being of ALL people? Our pastor eluded to that in his opening remarks of his first video. He also stated that it is clear that the govt is doing this for the people’s safety, and not some evil plot against Christianity. If ONLY churches were being targeted, the conversation would be profoundly different.

I ask you to forgive me when I get stupid in my choice of words.

That's a tough call to make for another ain't it? I mean...how "we" as believers appear to others. Unbelievers and/or un-churched.

Man but doesn't that open a whole can of worms? Not that I am against that cause I've always found the Lord willing. Except in myself the prying open of those areas looks more like a snake pit. The Lord ain't skeered of shining light on those places I might think better kept closed and to myself.

Yes. We could sometimes look like simple stiff necked and rebellious folks...without a care for our neighbors. I sure can't navigate all the possible permutations of appearances. But that does not mean I (or anyone) should be ignorant of them and their effects...especially if we believe we carry the Lord's name. And that, not in vain.
Yep, basically, even if we don't have a full appreciation of the extents...we are all on display.

It becomes a matter of conscience, though, doesn't it?

This next section may not to any seem relevant.

But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

What to me is relevant is where Paul stakes out his position.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

In one way it holds a beckoning. Free of any personal burden now to choose among what disposition to hold toward who is preaching, as long as Christ's name is being lifted.

Yet, at first glance it could appear the furthest cry from another concern, right? Kinda like "Hey Paul, don't you care if hypocrites preach? Don't you care about motives? Couldn't some be preaching a "false gospel"?

But here's what I see as the point...little has been done to more effectively advance the gospel (even through a man like Paul) than the maintenance of the joy found in it.

It sounds weird right? How could a man, by just holding to the joy he has found in God through Christ...effectively do much...in the earth? And why would God be found so strenuously working through such a one? What power is found...in "just" joy?

Isn't it "better" to have all doctrines line up to some perceived perfection? Isn't it better a man be a great teacher...have all sortsa Bible knowledge at hand to dispense? (I trust I can bear if needed the accusation "this man says doctrine doesn't matter!")

Joy is spiritual matter. The strength of the gospel in many ways is all dependent upon it. At least as such joy is the joy found in Jesus Christ. I am not talking here about a pasted smile or empty laughter. What if we were to touch "God's good pleasure"? Could we endure it? Could we imagine how "good" His good is? How pleasurable His pleasure is? Could we contain it?

Does God, like some caricature of a (forgive offense) Jewish mother...love us with a sigh like "Oy, but I worked all morning into the afternoon to make your chicken and dumplings!" Almost like a masochist?

Or do we believe this? Can we believe this? Is this able to be believed?

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: "

Talk about opening a can of worms, right?

Cause without the Spirit's light...let's face it...treading here means we must face our own understandings which could surely include "what is God some kind of sadist?"
And who wants to even say that? Admit that because of a nature that has no understanding of joy, or "good" pleasure...can only see in that light!

Is God pleading with hands wringing "But look what I did for you?" Poor poor me.

I do not wish, (and all Heaven laughs at me) or think I am able, or can diminish the Lord's death on our behalf. That is not the point at all. But if there be a love that so far exceeds in measure...so that in seeing such sacrifice I am told "I was glad to do it for you"...how can this but not lead to hysterically joyous transport?
Jesus Christ did not go to the cross with a sigh "OK, OK, dad, I'll do it..." Like a son just trying to get his father off his back in regards to mowing the lawn.

"For the joy set before Him..." There was nothing that could prevent Him...in that joy. Even all the burden of most joyless sin...could not prevent!

Yes, joy is strong. We are told that it is the Lord's joy that is our strength. That we meet a very very happy face...when we come home to the Father...and not a scowl...though many scowls may have to be endured...even in our own imaginations. Sometimes even from our own beloved brothers.


(Don't wonder if I speak to you as a man who has had the very deepest wonder to almost all despair, even "in Christ"..."I simply cannot see how the God that approves Jesus Christ...could have any love for me") And that's where my laughter started. That's right...I cannot see how. I have had to be shown!



What has anything to do with this? I guess in all I continue to look for the man who understands "it is all to our joy that we are instructed to meet" (with no burden of unpleasant obligation.)

And also meet the man who also says "It is all to our joy we are instructed to submit to authorities" (with no burden of unpleasant obligation)

Love works no ill to his neighbor...by placing unpleasant burdens.

I think Paul got that...serve the Lord with gladness. Let a whole platter of gladness such as been given to us...be served in return to the Lord...that our joy (and His) may be full.

And of the increase of his government there shall be no end...in this mutual back and forth and ever ascending sharing...

up up and awayyyyy....

 

[The Original Rooster]

I've read quite a bit now from many sources about Pastor Tony Spell's comments about staying open. It sounds more like human arrogance than a desire to serve the Lord. You should not test God by intentionally putting yourself and others in danger. Pastor Spell says there are healing, signs, and wonders done in his church that can't be done in a Livestream. I am skeptical of a pastor who puts limits on what God can do and where he can do it. If God wants to heal and provide signs and wonders using a Livestream, he will. The pastor also wants to distribute handkerchiefs that have healing powers. I believe the pastor is borrowing from the book of Acts where handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched Christ healed others. A handkerchief is not what you put your faith in.
Trust God. Obey the law. Meet with your family at your home and pray for our country and the world. Help your neighbors. This is what I feel the Lord has called us to do.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Again, this is not persecution.

I agree. Voluntary church closures in Georgia are not persecution.

But forced closures in Louisiana with police threatening to send in the National Guard, and the DA threatening criminal charges for churches that continue to meet is a real and present threat of persecution.

My original point was in praise of Gov. Abbott in Texas for taking the same road of Georgia (voluntary action) rather than Louisiana (forced closures, threats of National Guard and criminal charges).

 

[NCHillbilly]

I honestly feel a whole lot more sorry for the folks who own restaurants, bars, hotels, and other businesses that are shut down than I do for church congregations who can't gather for a few weeks. You are being inconvenienced, and can worship anywhere you wish. God will understand. Those other folks are possibly losing their livelihoods.

Does it not bother you at all that folks are spreading and catching this disease and dying from being at church? Would Jesus want you to kill his children so that you can feel better about not interrupting your worship service schedule? Nobody will die from not hearing you preach or sing for a few weeks. They might from coming to church.

 

[hummerpoo]

I can find a lot of verses in the Bible saying obey government authority but only a few saying resist government authority.

Surely I missed the discussion of Rm. 13 with its attendant elements of our discernment of "good behavior" vs "evil" behavior and "assembling" together vs. "love your neighbor". If it is absent from this thread, then its absence is, for me, the most interesting aspect of the thread.

 

[NCHillbilly]

How do you know that? I'm truly more than a little interested.

Is climbing on the roof and hollering consistent with being "that radical"...and therefore if it is not being done one is a hypocrite? Or is it that if that is done one is foolish?

Cause how would you know...if it be consistency...that LDB doesn't do that?
And why would you suspect his occasional appearances on here are not only interspersed between hilarious giving of thanks?

I have been observing this brother's posts for some time, but that means nothing. Doesn't mean I know his heart, truly. But I sense his call to make disciples is something he takes seriously, not casually. Any are free to think of him, me, or any of us what they will, even as to how that instruction is received and carried out. But we might agree, nevertheless, it is an instruction given by the Lord...and apparently taken quite seriously by those who wrote much of the book in which we find very comforting words. Perhaps even for a day such as this.

To me it seems a very casual dismissal...but then again...that could just be me judging a judgment "before the time"...and better instructed till the Lord makes certainly clear.

But I have to admit, regardless...the most comforting words I have ever heard have come through those considered in "their day"...too radical.

One question, in plain English: How much use are dead disciples?

 

[redwards]

Baton Rouge area pastor defies governor, welcomes large gathering into church service

The gathering directly defied an order by Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards that bans groups larger than 50 from gathering at any one time, including in churches. President Donald Trump has recommended no groups larger than 10.

The pastor, Rev. Tony Spell, says police showed up at the church after the service telling him the National Guard would break up any future services with more than 50 people gathered. Spell says 305 people attended the service in the sanctuary Tuesday night.

Notice the police rightly did not enforce an unconstitutional order, but merely said the National Guard would handle it. If the governor wants his orders enforced, he has to get his own thugs to do it. I can't really see strong-handed enforcement measures here, though who knows? The governor does have an authoritarian streak.

LittleDrummerBoy, I just got one question...
Since the church, whose Pastor says will continue to hold services, is located in the East Baton Rouge Parish...according to this source...

https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/18/bat...welcomes-large-gathering-into-church-service/

"Tuesday’s service was held at Life Tabernacle Church in the City of Central, located in East Baton Rouge Parish. Rev. Spell says he does not believe his congregation is at risk of getting COVID-19."

...and now the CDC has 8 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in East Baton Rouge Parish (see attached image)....

What if...even one of those confirmed cases is a member of that congregation who was in attendance at the service.
Would the Pastor be justified in holding services when HIS decision put an entire congregation at risk?

 

[dixiecutter]

How do you know that?

I don't

 

[Spotlite]

We had services but at the same time, we have some elderly. Plus we are trying to honor request to not congregate in more than 10 at a time. It’s tough, I didn’t agree with it, but I also see the concern of exposing our elderly. As an option for 2 weeks, we are live streaming our services and grouping in groups of 8 at home.

Our churches also believe in obeying the law of the land. We will do that to a certain extent. Temporary measures to keep our elderly safe is honorable.

 

[dixiecutter]

Post deleted. More careful next time not to Judge the heart. Discernment is one thing, but that's not how my comment read.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Post deleted. More careful next time not to Judge the heart. Discernment is one thing, but that's not how my comment read.

There was nothing really wrong with your post.

 

[Israel]

One question, in plain English: How much use are dead disciples?

I thank God through Christ that you ask that question. Of what use...might be any disciple? Yet, they are so greatly desired.