Doctrine Of The Trinity

Because everyone does not see the Holy Ghost as a person !
It doesn't seem as clear in scripture as the Father and Son. I can see the Father on the throne and his Son at his right but not the holy spirit in the same imaged of being "at the throne of God." I just don't see the same imagery as the Father and Son imagery in scripture. The Son hands the kingdom over to God. God sends his Son to die for our sins, etc. Paul's epistles addressing Father and Son, etc,etc.
 
The Holy Spirit doesn't seem to share what the Father and Son does especially in scripture. The closeness and love that perhaps only a Father and Son could share.
The personage of the Holy Spirit in the human terms of the Father and Son seem to be lacking.

I can get a feel of what God is as a Father and what Jesus is as a Son. Especially as it relates to the Kingdom and a throne. I don't seem to have that same feeling about the Holy Spirit.

I'm not doubting the Holy Spirit's essence and purpose, it's just not as clearly laid out in scripture as the Father and Son.
 
Thread starter #183
TWO persons are seen and referred to in Rev. 10-11. The angel is Christ because of the description and because He says in Rev. 11:3 that the two witnesses were "my two witnesses " The other person was God in Heaven on the throne, to whom this one on Earth raises a hand and swares to Him that delay should be no longer.
The phrases " the Spirit of God " and " the Spirit of the Lord " and like expressions prove more than one person, for the Spirit could not be " of " or " from " God unless there was a God left behind who sends the Spirit. The Spirit could not be " from " the Lord and still be the Lord left behind after the Spirit is sent from Him. The God who is left behind is a person, for He thinks, wills, and acts as a person, and the Spirit that came from God is also a person, for He also thinks, wills, and acts as a separate person from the one who sent Him. Over 272 passages prove the Spirit to be a self-acting person from the Father and Son.
 
Thread starter #184
Ps. 2 clearly reveals two and THREE separate and distinct persons: David by the Holy Spirit (one person) speaks in Ps. 2 of two other persons. He says that the people would be gathered together "against the Lord [one person] and against his anointed" [another person]. Plural pronouns are used of "the Lord" and "his anointed," proving them to be two persons; "Let us [the people] break THEIR bands . . . THEIR cords from us . . . Yet have I [the Lord, one person] set MY king [the Messiah, another person] upon MY holy hill of Zion." Then the Messiah answers His Lord, "I will declare the decree: The Lord hath said unto ME, THOU are MY Son; this day have I begotten THEE." Then the Lord answers the people Serve, the Lord . . . kiss the Son lest HE be angry." All the Bible writers who spoke of God having a Son always made it clear that God Himself who promised the Son was not going to be That Son.
 
Thread starter #185
Christ is referred to again in Ps. 132:11-18 as the Lord's "anointed" and as " the horn of David" who was to set on David's throne and reign forever ( Luke 1:32-35 ). In Sam. 2:3-10, 27-36 Christ is called the Lord's "king" and the Lord's "anointed." We are to understand these passages in the same literal sense that we do of other anointed men, such as priests ( Lev. 4:3-16; 6:22 ), Saul ( 1 Sam. 12:3-5; 24:6-10 ), David ( 1 Sam. 16:6; 2 Sam. 19:21; 23:1 ), Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ( 1 Chron. 16:16-22; Ps. 105:9-15 ), Cyrus ( Isa. 45:1 ), and the nation of Israel ( Hab. 3:13 ). There must be two persons for anyone to be anointed--the one doing the anointing and the one being anointed; so if Christ is the anointed of the Father, He could not be the same person as the Father.
 
Thread starter #186
Ps. 8 with Heb. 2:5-18 speaks of TWO persons: "Thou [one person] hast made him [ the Messiah ] a little lower than the angels."

Ps. 16:8-10 with Acts 2:25-36 proves TWO persons, for one is on the right hand of the other; one did not leave the other in He11, or suffer His flesh to see corruption in the grave. Jesus is now on the right hand of the Father, and the Father is on the left hand of the Son, and this could never be unless there were two separate persons ( Ps. 16:8-10; 110:1, 5; Matt. 22:44; 26:64; Acts 2:33-34; 7:54-56; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1; Heb. 1:3, 13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet. 3:22; Rev. 22:3 ).

In Ps. 22:1-22 we have the Messiah talking to another person and calling Him "God" and "my God" and every statement referring to Him as a separate person. This was fulfilled with two persons ( Matt. 27:35, 39-43, 45-46; Heb. 9:14; 10:5-12; 1 Pet. 1 ).

Ps. 40:6-10 with Heb. 10:5-7 proves TWO persons: the Son, who came to do the will of the Father, and the Father Himself, who made a body for the Son.

Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9 proves TWO persons: the Son, who is "anointed" and blessed above His fellows, and the Father Himself, who blesses the Son. Both are called "God" but one "God" blessed and anointed the other "God."

Ps. 89:19, 27-37 and 132:11-18 speaks of TWO persons: the Messiah--who is God's "holy one," God's "one that is mighty," God's "one chosen out of the people," God's "first-born," "the horn of David," "mine anointed,"---and God Himself.

Ps. 110:1, 5 speaks of TWO Lords.
 
Ps. 8 with Heb. 2:5-18 speaks of TWO persons: "Thou [one person] hast made him [ the Messiah ] a little lower than the angels."

Ps. 16:8-10 with Acts 2:25-36 proves TWO persons, for one is on the right hand of the other; one did not leave the other in He11, or suffer His flesh to see corruption in the grave. Jesus is now on the right hand of the Father, and the Father is on the left hand of the Son, and this could never be unless there were two separate persons ( Ps. 16:8-10; 110:1, 5; Matt. 22:44; 26:64; Acts 2:33-34; 7:54-56; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1; Heb. 1:3, 13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet. 3:22; Rev. 22:3 ).

In Ps. 22:1-22 we have the Messiah talking to another person and calling Him "God" and "my God" and every statement referring to Him as a separate person. This was fulfilled with two persons ( Matt. 27:35, 39-43, 45-46; Heb. 9:14; 10:5-12; 1 Pet. 1 ).

Ps. 40:6-10 with Heb. 10:5-7 proves TWO persons: the Son, who came to do the will of the Father, and the Father Himself, who made a body for the Son.

Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9 proves TWO persons: the Son, who is "anointed" and blessed above His fellows, and the Father Himself, who blesses the Son. Both are called "God" but one "God" blessed and anointed the other "God."

Ps. 89:19, 27-37 and 132:11-18 speaks of TWO persons: the Messiah--who is God's "holy one," God's "one that is mighty," God's "one chosen out of the people," God's "first-born," "the horn of David," "mine anointed,"---and God Himself.

Ps. 110:1, 5 speaks of TWO Lords.
I can definitely see those two persons. Doesn't the Trinity make it three persons?
 
Thread starter #189
Prov. 30:4 speaks of TWO persons one the Father and one the Son, and each has a name separate from that of the other . " What is his [ the Father's ] name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell?" The Son's name then is not that of the Father and the Father's name is not that of the Son.
 
Thread starter #190
The prophets speak of the Messiah as "the BRANCH of [from] the Lord" ( Isa. 4 ); "a righteous BRANCH, and a KING . . . his name shall be called, THE LOUD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" ( Jer. 23:5-8 ); " the BRANCH of righteousness" ( Jer. 33:14-26 ); "my servant the BRANCH" ( Zech. 3:8-10 ); and "the man whose name is the BRANCH" ( Zech. 6:12, 13 ). These passages clearly prove TWO persons: the Father, who was to raise up this "BRANCH" and "KING" to be His servant, and Son, who is to fulfill these passages and reign under the Father UNTIL all enemies are put down; then the Son Himself will deliver His Kingdom to the Father who becomes supreme over this rebellious part of the universe, as He is now the head of Christ ( 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:24-28; Isa. 9:6, 7; Dan. 2:44, 45; 7:9-14; Zech. 14; Matt. 24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8-12; Isa. 32:1-5; Ezek. 43:7; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 5:9, 10; 11:15; 19:1-21; 20:1-10 ).
 
The prophets speak of the Messiah as "the BRANCH of [from] the Lord" ( Isa. 4 ); "a righteous BRANCH, and a KING . . . his name shall be called, THE LOUD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" ( Jer. 23:5-8 ); " the BRANCH of righteousness" ( Jer. 33:14-26 ); "my servant the BRANCH" ( Zech. 3:8-10 ); and "the man whose name is the BRANCH" ( Zech. 6:12, 13 ). These passages clearly prove TWO persons: the Father, who was to raise up this "BRANCH" and "KING" to be His servant, and Son, who is to fulfill these passages and reign under the Father UNTIL all enemies are put down; then the Son Himself will deliver His Kingdom to the Father who becomes supreme over this rebellious part of the universe, as He is now the head of Christ ( 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:24-28; Isa. 9:6, 7; Dan. 2:44, 45; 7:9-14; Zech. 14; Matt. 24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8-12; Isa. 32:1-5; Ezek. 43:7; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 5:9, 10; 11:15; 19:1-21; 20:1-10 ).
You are more or less saying that Jesus is the Son of God. That God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to save all mankind from their sins.
That God, being a Father, is superior to Jesus. Jesus, being a Son is by definition of sonship is submissive to God. That Christ is the head of every individual man, just as a man is the “head” of the woman and God is the head of Christ.
That God sent His Son to the earth. That God gave us His Son. Not that Christ sent himself. It was His Father's gift and Jesus only did the will of His Father.
That eventually Christ will hand the Kingdom over to God and take his rightful place at the right hand of his Father at some point in the future.

That man can become heirs, and joint heirs with Christ.
 
Thread starter #192
In Isa. 10:16, 17 the Lord of Hosts is spoken of as having a HOLY ONE, called "HIS HOLY ONE." This proves TWO persons, for the Lord of Hosts is one person, and "His Holy One" must also be a person. The Lord of Hosts could not be "HIS HOLY ONE" and "HIS HOLY ONE" could not be the Lord of Hosts.

In Isa. 11:1, 2; 42:1-5; 61:1, 2 we have clear reference to three persons: the Lord Himself (one person) who was to send the Spirit (another person) upon the Messiah (Still another person). When fulfilled two persons were seen with the natural eyes, and the third person (the Father) spoke from Heaven concerning the Son, while the Holy Ghost descended upon the Son ( Matt. 3:16, 17; Luke 4:16-21; John 1:31-34 ).

Isa. 22:16 speaks of TWO persons one (the Father) who was to lay the "stone," and the "stone" itself, which is a symbol of Christ, who is another person ( 1 Pet. 2:5-8 ).

Isa. 42:1-7 refers to THREE persons: God the Father Himself (the first person), who was to have a "servant," called here "my servant" and "mine elect in whom MY SOUL delighteth [the second person]; I have put MY SPIRIT [the third person] UPON HIM; HE shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." God Himself, the Servant of God, and the Spirit make three persons.

In Isa. 48:16 we have another clear reference to three persons "The Lord God [one person], and His Spirit [another person], hath sent ME [Jesus, another person].
 
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