Doeless December

[SpotandStalk]

Maybe you should try to kill one with a bow. Then the population could rebound.

So you want the "challenge" of killing one with a bow but expect the rules to be bent in your favor?

I have killed with a bow. Not my cup of tea. IF I were to get into bow hunting it would be with a recurve not these new compounds that shoot 70 yds.

 

[bedge7767]

So you want the "challenge" of killing one with a bow but expect the rules to be bent in your favor?

I have killed with a bow. Not my cup of tea. IF I were to get into bow hunting it would be with a recurve not these new compounds that shoot 70 yds.

How far does your rifle shoot? That's a real "challenge" I guess.

 

[tnhikr44]

You've made three posts in this thread and I've noticed that only one person tried to call you out on one bit of info you provided... that's how I know you've hit the nail on the head

I am glad someone other than me suspects that some data, somewhere, is skewed. Do not get me wrong, I recognize the difficulty in wholesale game management such as this.

I deal with numbers all day at work. Absolute numbers. No gray areas for me. Think of the IRS - They do not let you guess about your wages, they want to know every quarter, dime, nickel and penny you make. That is probably why these numbers freak me out. I do not get to work in the gray areas. These numbers may or may not be accurate. What these biologists are doing, in my opinion, is working with fuzzy math in gray areas. I suppose it is no fault of their own, but without question, based on the info I see, it is fuzzy data nonetheless.

If the current doe harvest rate is 65% as suggested, one could say that, for all practical purposes, two does are harvested for every buck. It appears that the goal harvest rate for does is 50-52%, as that number is provided in the link also. That is an assumption on my part, but they listed it so it must be important! So this "Doeless in December" seems to be an attempt to save 15 does out of every 100 deer harvested. If the fawn recruitment rate is, and stays at, 25%, we will 'rescue' 3.75 fawns per 100 does. Unless my math is also fuzzy, that ain't much. That is something like one fawn per 850 acres.
Given the numbers provided any improvement is great. But we are a species that has two remote controlled 4 wheelers on the planet Mars. We fix hearts. We have left foot prints on the moon. Point is, we have some really smart people on this blue marble, is this really the best we can do?

 

[C.Killmaster]

I am glad someone other than me suspects that some data, somewhere, is skewed. Do not get me wrong, I recognize the difficulty in wholesale game management such as this.

I deal with numbers all day at work. Absolute numbers. No gray areas for me. Think of the IRS - They do not let you guess about your wages, they want to know every quarter, dime, nickel and penny you make. That is probably why these numbers freak me out. I do not get to work in the gray areas. These numbers may or may not be accurate. What these biologists are doing, in my opinion, is working with fuzzy math in gray areas. I suppose it is no fault of their own, but without question, based on the info I see, it is fuzzy data nonetheless.

If the current doe harvest rate is 65% as suggested, one could say that, for all practical purposes, two does are harvested for every buck. It appears that the goal harvest rate for does is 50-52%, as that number is provided in the link also. That is an assumption on my part, but they listed it so it must be important! So this "Doeless in December" seems to be an attempt to save 15 does out of every 100 deer harvested. If the fawn recruitment rate is, and stays at, 25%, we will 'rescue' 3.75 fawns per 100 does. Unless my math is also fuzzy, that ain't much. That is something like one fawn per 850 acres.
Given the numbers provided any improvement is great. But we are a species that has two remote controlled 4 wheelers on the planet Mars. We fix hearts. We have left foot prints on the moon. Point is, we have some really smart people on this blue marble, is this really the best we can do?

The current fawn recruitment rate is 55%, not 25%.

 

[hylander]

How are they actually coming up with these numbers? This just seems like a lot of guessing.

 

[Lead Poison]

Doe are all pregnant in Dec. So killing one kills two or three.

It makes ZERO difference if a doe is killed in November or December-none. It will still be dead.

It doesn't matter if the doe you kill is pregnant or not.

 

[Pudd82]

It's time to change y'all, change is for the better. We as humans hold the key, responsible harvest isn't gonna hurt anyone. We should take a little taste and let mother nature do the rest, that's what she is there for, if we do the wrong thing she will let us know and punish us for it. How many deer do you need to fill your ego, please check this at the door and grow up.

 

[SpotandStalk]

How far does your rifle shoot? That's a real "challenge" I guess.

In the places I hunt I can kill one maybe 35 yards further with my rifle than a bow. Yes a compound would be a little more challenging than a rifle where I hunt but not much. I definitely wouldn't want the regs bent in my favor if I was looking for a "challenge".

Doesn't really matter to me how you kill em. I've gotten 7 does so far and plan on filling my other 3 tags shortly after Christmas. That and 1 more Buck and my freezer will be full.

 

[HunterD15]

I think we should try to be better hunters

I don't have an issue with seeing deer the problem lies in seeing mature deer but our deer aren't stupid. We see plenty of deer and have "honey holes" and such just like anyone else where we tend to see the most deer and have our trail cams. We mostly hunt hardwoods with little food plots on a 200+ acre tract. We do not hunt in the wide open. I feel like hunters are complaining about deer numbers because they hunt wide open fields and expect to shoot deer out of them like they do in the midwest on T.V. Seems as if deer are getting smarter and the hunters are getting dumber.
We like to shoot does in the month of December for two main reasons.
1. shooting does early in the season adds to hunting pressure and making the bucks more aware of human presence. (yes I am aware deer have excellent noses) but there is just something about gun shots and dragging dead deer out of the woods that seems to make bucks nocturnal.
2. We spend most of the months of October and November hunting bucks. I am not going to take the chance of shooting a doe that could possibly be coming "in" and diminish my chance of big boy being right behind her. The rut in middle Georgia has fluctuated from the last weekend of October to the last weekend of November but, you can rest assured that around the 15th of November will usually be a good time for chasing bucks.
While you risk the chance of killing does that are bred by your big buck genetics we just prefer hunting does in the months of December and January. This depletion of either sex days will basically give us two weeks of hunting and as a college student, I'll have 4 hunts to kill does. Last year we shot 6 does and no bucks but this year our rut was more intense than it has ever been and we saw more bucks in daylight across our whole property.
Just a little tid bit of my opinion for the doe days. Take it or leave it.

 

[flacarnivore]

i do like to leave mom with the little ones as long as we can. maybe if it was up to me we would wait till the very end to take the moms. even the little ones would have alittle more meat on them. m.02

 

[GA DAWG]

The lil ones here are nearly as big as the big ones. Bucks are just now chasing and I'm going to kill a doe or 2 this week. If I feel like it. They have plenty of meat on em. I keep fed pretty well all yr.

 

[misguided]

The current fawn recruitment rate is 55%, not 25%.

why then does GON consistently publish articles that say it is 25%??? if they are supposed to be our reputable source of info for a lot of hunters in the state.

i can definitely hear the doe days working. haven't heard a shot in nearly 2 weeks. glad something was done but think it is not nearly as effective as it could have been. the season should start with no does. save doe days for tgiving and christmas like it used to be. plenty of opportunity for the little ones to hunt then but gives hunters a chance to put the "meat" they need in the freezer in the form of horns first. otherwise many will knock out 3, 4, 5, 6 does early just so they can brag they killed something, more than their buddy. i think most hunters have a disease called ithcy trigger finger and can't help themselves. i still say those that need more than 5 deer for a family are full of it. that is basing it on surviving soley on deer. like i posted before and another said in this thread- shoot bigger deer and let bambi walk!!! or pick another season.

 

[C.Killmaster]

why then does GON consistently publish articles that say it is 25%??? if they are supposed to be our reputable source of info for a lot of hunters in the state.

Because they have been doing interviews of researchers from 2 study sites, one in Alabama and one in South Carolina, that did have a 25% recruitment rate. There are specific properties in Georgia that may have a 25% recruitment rate as well as some with recruitment in excess of 100%, however the average is 55% across the state.

 

[Randy]

Man, if you guys had come along when I did you would really be crying. We could kill two bucks and one doe all year. Weapons were very limited and deer were few and far between. You'd be lucky to see three deer in a year. But when we saw a buck, he was usually a good one.

 

[Buzz]

Man, if you guys had come along when I did you would really be crying. We could kill two bucks and one doe all year. Weapons were very limited and deer were few and far between. You'd be lucky to see three deer in a year. But when we saw a buck, he was usually a good one.

I came along in those times and remember them well. I believe there are parts of the state now that aren't much different now than what you are talking about then. Certainly not everywhere - central and south seem to have tons of deer, but portions of the state nevertheless and they still have the same limits / regulations.

 

[JimShue30113]

Man, if you guys had come along when I did you would really be crying. We could kill two bucks and one doe all year. Weapons were very limited and deer were few and far between. You'd be lucky to see three deer in a year. But when we saw a buck, he was usually a good one.

Sir, are you saying that since things were limited and harsh in your adolescence that we should feel humble and thankful that things have been better and are just now sliding backwards towards those bitter times?

I'm of the opinion that if you can live in the land of milk and honey that we shouldn't want to return to the times of grits and pee water.

Happy to say that from my past I learned a great deal and those mistakes helped me to make better decisions so that I'm fruitful in my future.

Why settle for the harsh hunting of seeing 3 deer a season and 1 buck when we know we can easily have a state with a thriving deer population that affords most everyone with seeing deer ever to every other sitting and seeing a handful of decent bucks each fall?

I simply follow not your logic but I'm listening for it.

 

[Randy]

Actually I liked the old days. I think hunting was a lot more fun and challenging when there were fewer and bigger deer. It is what taught me how to hunt. Killing a deer now days is too simple. Especially if you live in the southern part of the state. The sport of hunting is supposed to be about "hunting" not shooting. Shooting is the ends result of the effort required by the sport. If no hunting is involved it just becomes shooting. And honestly that is where we are for most of this state.

 

[JimShue30113]

Actually I liked the old days. I think hunting was a lot more fun and challenging when there were fewer and bigger deer. It is what taught me how to hunt. Killing a deer now days is too simple. Especially if you live in the southern part of the state. The sport of hunting is supposed to be about "hunting" not shooting. Shooting is the ends result of the effort required by the sport. If no hunting is involved it just becomes shooting. And honestly that is where we are for most of this state.

Is it safe to say you consider yourself a purest/traditionalist hunter. I say that with no ill will or disrespect, just for understanding purposes. A person that seeks out the hunt through diligent pursuit, time and effort. One that might utilize more traditional weapons or ones that limit range to aid in the difficulty of the hunt. A ground hunter for the most part, forgoing climbing stands and modern climbing equipment.

???

If this is the case, that's awesome. I wish you the best of luck.

But I hope you realize that while you are far from alone in your quest, your idea of this being a supreme hunting choice holds just as much merit as me hunting over a well designed food plot that has mast trees on it's edge purposely fertilized from a modern aluminum climbing stand positioned to maximize wind currents and sporting a MSR in 308 Win with a high end 2-8 variable scope and all copper expanding bullets.

While our two hunting choices vastly differ, the one item that does not differ is that we are both legal and pursuing venison.

I don't condemn your desires and methods because that's your right to hunt as you wish; so long as it's legal.

I hope you won't condemn my methods and desires so long as they are legal.

 

[Randy]

Yes I am a traditionalist. I have used modern rifles in the past and may again some day. Nothing against them except for me they are just to easy and take some of the hunting out of it. I am also not so traditional that I am going back to a smoke pole or a recurve bow. For me that is too much work.

I have nothing against food plots either although again I don't do them. Too much work and it doesn't take long before deer learn to avoid them during daylight hours. But they can be good for all game. They have their pros.

I don't really care how a person hunts or really what with although I do think crossbows are a little outsider archery hunting and inline muzzle loaders with scopes are a little outside of primitive. But they have been legalized so have at it.

Baiting is different not only do I feel it is not hunting (it's shooting) but it is also too much work to do it right. And if legal you have to do it or your neighbor will have the deer. But more than that it is not accepted by non-hunters as fair chase (I agree with them). They are the majority. And they have the power to remove my privilege to hunt.

 

[Buzz]

Deer avoid food plots in daylight hours? Hmm, with nearly 20 bucks killed in them at our club this year alone, many mature, not far from where you live - I guess our deer didn't get the memo.

Human pressure makes deer go nocturnal, not persimmons, white oaks, bait plots, bait, etc. I've literally seen well over a hundred deer sightings in my food plots this year, but I walk 2/3 of a mile to the stands and totally avoid them if the wind isn't right. I don't tromp through the bottoms instead waiting in the fringe areas for them to come to me. I use food plots in the hope that a buck stops for a few seconds to give me a good look so I can decide to take him or not.

I've hunted with plenty of traditional firearms, flintlocks, caplocks, recurve bows, single shot rifles, and iron sighted lever guns. I've hunted public land, national forest, state parks, private leases, paper company land, in places where they bait, mostly where you can't. I've hunted deer with dogs and done the hawg dawg thing. I've still hunted, stand hunted, walked miles with a climber on my back in wma's, hunted behind fallen logs, stalked game for what seemed like forever. I've been able to hunt deer and some other game in a number of states and in the land of our neighbors to the north. I guess my point is that I've done just enough forms of hunting to realize putting ones self on a high horse when it comes to hunting in Georgia over the minor things we seem to argue: it's s darn short horse, more like a pony.

I don't much consider a compound bow this almighty challenge that some make it out to be. It's not much different than stand hunting a food source in the early season in the thick woods. Sure you have to draw back undetected, but with modern short axle bows that is far from a difficult task. Been busted drawing back once in my life, heck I've been busted more than that being careless with a rifle. I've maybe killed a dozen with a bow but it's put up as soon as I can use a ML.

Let's be honest Randy, simply killing deer on a halfway decent piece of property in Georgia is pretty easy. I could have tagged out by the opening weekend of rifle season if that was my desire. I could have killed two bucks with my bow this season but since I have no desire to mount anything less than 125", they we're let go. That's quite a different story from the part of the state I quit hunting this season. Some of you guys that think there is no problem whatsoever in Georgia should spend two years hunting Haralson, Paulding, Polk, etc where your 300 acres may border many small properties that absolutely shoot everything they see. When you have friends that you know are excellent hunters and they see a whopping four deer in a season, you know something is very very wrong.