Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.
Yes. There are a couple Atheist friends of mine that believe a spiritual realm and even a higher power might exist..............but it is not connected to God or a god.

As an example - they believe in ghost. Do someone wrong and they will haunt you. They believe in karma, they believe in sending "good vibes", etc.
 
Yes. There are a couple Atheist friends of mine that believe a spiritual realm and even a higher power might exist..............but it is not connected to God or a god.

As an example - they believe in ghost. Do someone wrong and they will haunt you. They believe in karma, they believe in sending "good vibes", etc.
Those are great examples but I dont think they are a "version of Atheism".
They are just individual beliefs that are separate from Atheism.
At least thats how I see it.
 
Thread starter #23
I suppose that this is where I have gotten to where I need some further advice in understanding Atheism (this is in no way intended to be argumentative at all - I am earnestly looking to understand) ....

1. How does the Atheist know with certainty that there is simply no chance of there being some sort of spiritual realm? I.e., how much knowledge would one have to have (omniscience?) to be so certain?

or, then...

2. Okay ... then if not 100% certainty, but the Atheist holds to the said 'certainty view' being based on 'in all likelihood there is no spiritual realm, then is it 'ok' to view Atheism as being a faith based ideology?

Thanks.
 
Sorry, I thought you said this - "I cannot STAND being pigeonholed * concerning political beliefs and religious beliefs!"

I am going back to my whole now. Working on a water wheel with a hand-crank pump to pump water out of a creek without using electricity.
Yes I did say that, so let me clear it up. I don't like being pigeonholed concerning if you are a Liberal then you have to believe X concerning religion, but if you are a Conservative then you have to believe Y concerning religion. It's counter-productive for both politics and religion.
 
I suppose that this is where I have gotten to where I need some further advice in understanding Atheism (this is in no way intended to be argumentative at all - I am earnestly looking to understand) ....

1. How does the Atheist know with certainty that there is simply no chance of there being some sort of spiritual realm? I.e., how much knowledge would one have to have (omniscience?) to be so certain?

or, then...

2. Okay ... then if not 100% certainty, but the Atheist holds to the said 'certainty view' being based on 'in all likelihood there is no spiritual realm, then is it 'ok' to view Atheism as being a faith based ideology?

Thanks.
Just my 2 cents, but if an atheist posits the point that there might be a spiritual realm in general I would say that it's not a matter of faith (hope in things unseen) in what might exist as much as their usual level of skepticism. In other words it wouldn't be fair for an atheist to lower or raise the bar on "the burden of proof" for one spiritual issue (let's say demons or angels or spirits or whatever) but demand a different standard of proof for one all-powerful God. Most atheists just want the Truth.
So far, no religion (or spiritually driven organization or philosophy) has provided
any evidence that can be proven to the standards of people outside their circle of followers.

Bottom line no atheist knows for certain that there isn't a spiritual realm and would welcome proof that won't be shot down in flames eventually. Of course, "the burden of proof" will vary from atheist to atheist.

As I've mentioned before IMHO Jesus walking on water would be a great example of a possible spiritual ability unknown to modern science. (y)
I can get a mental image of this actually occurring without any major conflict with the laws of science. There's nothing outrageously ridiculous about it as a stand-alone miracle.

However, "God making the sun and moon stand still" in the OT Joshua chapter 10 for Joshua to finish his military battle is laughable on many levels, the worst point being stopping the Earth from spinning (since that's what causes night versus day) at about 1,000 MPH WOULD DESTROY THE EARTH. :oops: And starting back up to 1,000 MPH from a standing stop would also DESTROY THE EARTH. Google that, it's pretty amazing & terrifying really. The point is that is a miracle that I am 100 percent certain did not happen since the Earth didn't get destroyed.
 
Yes. There are a couple Atheist friends of mine that believe a spiritual realm and even a higher power might exist..............but it is not connected to God or a god.

As an example - they believe in ghost. Do someone wrong and they will haunt you. They believe in karma, they believe in sending "good vibes", etc.
Yes, I've met a few of those type of people too. There's zero evidence (so far anyway) for that stuff too.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Yes, I've met a few of those type of people too. There's zero evidence (so far anyway) for that stuff too.
I’ve always heard about good luck, gotta be lucky, as luck has it……

They’ll do their little ceremony of rubbing their hands together, marking an x on the windshield when a black cat runs across, etc.

Those folks don’t like me because I tell them there’s no such thing as good luck or bad luck. Luck is nothing but where opportunity and preparation / lack of preparation meet.
 
Thank you.
How is an Atheist who does not know for certain different from an Agnostic?
Im interested in the responses on this.
I put myself in the Agnostic bucket simply because I dont know for CERTAIN.
But I dont believe in the existence of a God or gods (due to a lack of demonstrable evidence) which is the definition of Atheism.
This is why I hate buckets.
And great question by the way.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Thank you.
How is an Atheist who does not know for certain different from an Agnostic?
The Atheist (or literally No One) knows anything about what may possibly be.
The Atheist just does not beleive in any god or gods.
No different than a believer who believes in a god or gods but equally has no greater clue about their actual existence.
The Agnostic says , Gee, Maybe I guess, I don't know if or if not.
 
Thread starter #32
The Atheist (or literally No One) knows anything about what may possibly be.
The Atheist just does not believe in any god or gods.
No different than a believer* who believes in a god or gods but equally has no greater clue about their actual existence.
The Agnostic says , Gee, Maybe I guess, I don't know if or if not.
And "... a *Believer... " readily views his / her ideology as thereby 'faith based,'
due to the whatever degree of uncertainty / lack of measurable tangible evidence.
The Agnostic's position would seem to me to not be 'faith based' at all??????
The Atheist ideology would seem to me to be 'faith based' if the conclusion is arrived at with any degree of uncertainty ....
in that faith is what overcomes the whatever degree of uncertainty??????
 
And "... a *Believer... " readily views his / her ideology as thereby 'faith based,'
due to the whatever degree of uncertainty / lack of measurable tangible evidence.
The Agnostic's position would seem to me to not be 'faith based' at all??????
The Atheist ideology would seem to me to be 'faith based' if the conclusion is arrived at with any degree of uncertainty ....
in that faith is what overcomes the whatever degree of uncertainty??????
LOL...could that mean some man would say "I am certain I am uncertain"?
 
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And "... a *Believer... " readily views his / her ideology as thereby 'faith based,'
due to the whatever degree of uncertainty / lack of measurable tangible evidence.
The Agnostic's position would seem to me to not be 'faith based' at all??????
The Atheist ideology would seem to me to be 'faith based' if the conclusion is arrived at with any degree of uncertainty ....
in that faith is what overcomes the whatever degree of uncertainty??????
The ol saying, 'I just believe in one less God than you do', comes to mind. I do find it fascinating how folks try to attach 'faith' and 'ideology' to just not believing in Gods or supreme beings. It is almost like they are upset they are stuck with it and just want to make sure everyone gets the label. In reality, atheist is the easiest thing to be. I don't have to prove anything. Shouldn't everyone start as an atheist until proven otherwise? Sadly, that is not the case. You are most likely born with folks telling you how you believe. Have you checked out the other Gods to see if they are more viable or just wrote them off as false idols?

"Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future." ---PENN JILLETTE
 
Thread starter #35
....Shouldn't everyone start as an atheist until proven otherwise?
....Have you checked out the other Gods...?
Respectively to your above questions
(as relates to me, i.e., not speaking for others : ):
1. My starting point is that I am not all knowing, until I can prove otherwise.
2. Yes Sir.
 
Respectively to your above questions
(as relates to me, i.e., not speaking for others : ):
1. My starting point is that I am not all knowing, until I can prove otherwise.
Didn't answer the question but, ok.
Now, if you are saying you started as an atheist but, your currently worshipped God was proven to you, please share.
What about the other Gods made you say, "Nah, that's crazy."?
 
Thread starter #37
RegularJoe said:
Respectively to your above questions
(as relates to me, i.e., not speaking for others : ):
1. My starting point is that I am not all knowing, until I can prove otherwise.

Griz replied:
Didn't answer the question but, ok.

Griz - My answer would be for me, simply 'no, not in my particular case, in that I do not know enough to say
 
Come on Griz ... give me a break - I did not say even close to "Nah, that's crazy."
I have not in anyway suggested such.
Ok. I can ask the question in a more boring way.
What about the other Gods made you not believe in them and pick the one you did?

I also understand I am getting off topic and into the weeds. Sorry. To answer your original question..."Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm?" No. Mainly because there is only one 'version' of atheism. Lack of belief in existence of gods. That's it. The end. :)
 
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Thread starter #40
To answer your original question..."Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm?" No. Mainly because there is only one 'version' of atheism. Lack of belief in existence of gods. That's it. :)
Many thanks Griz ... Got it.
 
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