ETERNAL LIFE CAN BE LOST

God quality input will cause God quality output one would think. During Jesus' day a lot of folk confessed to the God of Abraham and were fond of Moses, yet their God quality output was said to be no so great. In fact we are told that despite their confessions they did not know the Father otherwise they would have known Jesus for who he is. " It is not sacrifice I want..." was come by here pie in the sky--life lived in a rough neighborhood.

If in my case "I" understands that God so loved the world as to give his only son, then "I" can't fault God for poor quality input and must conclude that if my or my brother's output and understanding is a confusion something runs interference between God's input and my "I" and its output.

If there is something that makes "I" see contradiction in God's input when I know in my heart their is no need of it to be perhaps my faith is lacking love for man. Maybe.
yep...dis reconcilin' works out a stuff in us. As it works in us.
 
It only makes sense to take ignorance as the gift it is when it is proffered.

It'd be foolish for a man to try and stand upon what he has done; anymore than it would be to find he's inviting not only what he has not done for the judging...but even all the other things he conveniently forgets he has done.

"I want this one to count...that...not so much."

Anyone else ever find God just ain't as stupid as we'd sometimes think we'd like Him to be?

Now, it's a bit late for me as I've found Paul too faithful in his candor, to me he's been shown a reliable witness...time and again. He got taken places...he went places. So much so he was ascribed insanity at times, at others finding himself in need of defending his apostleship.

But for what remains of magik and superstition it's imagined and it's very much magically assumed he'd have primo reservations and the red carpet treatment for every "christian" he'd visit today. Kinda like Jesus Christ.

But Paul knew when to see, and find, and take ignorance as a gift. And he also knew no one could foist this as gift to another...it had to be realized. But oh, when offered as in "Father forgive them they know not what they do" and that gift of mercy was forever linked to it in that plea...he took it.


Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

And so much so he came to embrace it as relief from striving of all and any trying to explain the inexplicable to others...instead he just went about naked of everything except of what Christ had worked in him. Theory was gone.

And so much so he'd come to see a something...and say a something that...except a man come to occupy that spot, would surely appear as though so much of what he'd said before was...well...error. Or at least...didn't square.

And he knew he couldn't get "anyone" there anymore than he'd gotten himself to it. But, he would, nevertheless, convinced Christ had worked this in him...publish it in all, and for all, recommendation.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

But, in that acceptance he also came to understand, by sight of it...the very why of it.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

His choosing had all and only with a thing another desired...and desired to show.

Now a silly man would ask..."Then how bad do I have to be, or yet strive to be, to know this?"

"After all, can I outchief...Paul?"

I like that some of you are laughing.

There's patience in abundance for any others.

And we can all "keep going" but, only by the Lord's grace.

To quote him has no magic in it...it's all and only the only real stuff a man might come to know.

"and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."




"It ain't so much that men don't wanna be saved to the uttermost, son. It's just that few men know how much they really do need to be. But then, ain't none of us used to bein' loved so well, and so much.

An' my prayer for you boy, is that you never get used to it to the point of taken it for granted. But only believin' it will keep you from that. An' for that you're gunna need all the help there is. It'll surprise you every time...how much you need, and how much is there."

St. Pugnatious
 
Last edited:
The faith that loves is the faith that lives.:cool: Possibly this faith, a loving faith is that which ministers salvation with Paul and Peter. It is not only a faith of belief, but it is a faith of living, of being.


"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."
 
Thread starter #184
Or that a man can't believe this...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Or this...

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
"Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas. 1:13-16).
 
Thread starter #186
It only makes sense to take ignorance as the gift it is when it is proffered.

It'd be foolish for a man to try and stand upon what he has done; anymore than it would be to find he's inviting not only what he has not done for the judging...but even all the other things he conveniently forgets he has done.

"I want this one to count...that...not so much."

Anyone else ever find God just ain't as stupid as we'd sometimes think we'd like Him to be?

Now, it's a bit late for me as I've found Paul too faithful in his candor, to me he's been shown a reliable witness...time and again. He got taken places...he went places. So much so he was ascribed insanity at times, at others finding himself in need of defending his apostleship.

But for what remains of magik and superstition it's imagined and it's very much magically assumed he'd have primo reservations and the red carpet treatment for every "christian" he'd visit today. Kinda like Jesus Christ.

But Paul knew when to see, and find, and take ignorance as a gift. And he also knew no one could foist this as gift to another...it had to be realized. But oh, when offered as in "Father forgive them they know not what they do" and that gift of mercy was forever linked to it in that plea...he took it.


Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

And so much so he came to embrace it as relief from striving of all and any trying to explain the inexplicable to others...instead he just went about naked of everything except of what Christ had worked in him. Theory was gone.

And so much so he'd come to see a something...and say a something that...except a man come to occupy that spot, would surely appear as though so much of what he'd said before was...well...error. Or at least...didn't square.

And he knew he couldn't get "anyone" there anymore than he'd gotten himself to it. But, he would, nevertheless, convinced Christ had worked this in him...publish it in all, and for all, recommendation.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

But, in that acceptance he also came to understand, by sight of it...the very why of it.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

His choosing had all and only with a thing another desired...and desired to show.

Now a silly man would ask..."Then how bad do I have to be, or yet strive to be, to know this?"

"After all, can I outchief...Paul?"

I like that some of you are laughing.

There's patience in abundance for any others.

And we can all "keep going" but, only by the Lord's grace.

To quote him has no magic in it...it's all and only the only real stuff a man might come to know.

"and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."




"It ain't so much that men don't wanna be saved to the uttermost, son. It's just that few men know how much they really do need to be. But then, ain't none of us used to bein' loved so well, and so much.

An' my prayer for you boy, is that you never get used to it to the point of taken it for granted. But only believin' it will keep you from that. An' for that you're gunna need all the help there is. It'll surprise you every time...how much you need, and how much is there."

St. Pugnatious
"Whosoever committeth sin is of the devil," not of God, regardless of past salvation (1 John. 3:8).
 
Thread starter #187
You ain't gonna find a feller what likes havin' his cake and eatin' it too, more'n me.

So's I got no accusation, jes reconnition o' when I believe I see it also bein' done.

Do you not see a conundrum?

The word for servant, doulos is alternately translated slave and servant...and for our intents it makes little difference.

The commiting of sin(s), though not reserved only to unbelievers, though you might contend (not sure, do you?) it gets one "unborn again" again seems here to be the/a sticking point.
So, let's grant it does that. Just for the sake of seeing if there's a consistency to your thinking and writing.

A sin or sins, that can make a disciple into a spiritually "dead again" un-new creation/creature...delivers him back to that prior estate of being a slave to sin...in every way as much as the estate of an unbeliever. (I am not contending sin has no consequence)

Am I presuming too much of your contentions?

Slave. Blind. Bound. Both by sin, and to it.

How do you square previous contending for man as "free" moral agent then in his natural state? What is free about a slave? What is free about one who is blind to choice of good..if all and only "choice" is, and can only be among sin?

It is like being told "you can have whatever color you want, so long as it is blue", or contending a man in that situation...is free.

We all need an intervention...and a continual intervening, not so Jesus has something to do to keep Him busy, but in His exercise of His doing and being as inseparably consistent for His glory and our salvation (of necessity)...

"Who ever liveth to make intercession for us".

Jesus Christ is consistent.

An unspeakable gift...always.
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin UNTO DEATH, or of obedience UNTO RIGHTEOUNESS . . . the end of those things [committing sins] IS DEATH . . . for the wages of sin IS DEATH " (Rom. 6:16-23).
 
Thread starter #188
We can hold 2 attitudes at once (seeming paradox).
In fact, if we do not because we cannot, we can hold neither of them.

It takes God for a man to even know he is a sinner.

And just as likewise it takes the work of God to let a man know he is forgiven.

Our attitude toward our self is one thing...our attitude of God's mercy found in His self, is another.

God resolves all that we cannot.
"If we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Tim. 2:12). This is a plain lie if God will not da-mn saved men should they sin and deny him.
 
Do you not hear yourself?

This is a plain lie if God will not da-mn saved men
Is it to be taken then that God will? Durn saved men?
 

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Who’s power is guarding you and why? You either trust Him to do what he says or not! Your own power cannot guard you or save you!
 
I noticed you just copied and paste the last part not the whole reply and yes I know what I said and it was the truth



OK. Here it is in whole.

"If we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Tim. 2:12). This is a plain lie if God will not da-mn saved men should they sin and deny him.

The "This" of "This is a plain lie..." is the "If we deny him, he also will deny us" so that that "this" would be the plain lie:

if God will not da-mn saved men should they sin and deny him.
saved men.

It is a lie
"If we deny him, he also will deny us"
if
God will not da-mn saved men should they sin and deny him.
?

God will da'mn...saved men?


Could it be saved men are the men who already know they are condemned...under God's law? And are made able, through Christ to accept it? And being made able by and through the quickening faith of Christ (and by that faith...alone) are now the justified before God?

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

One man "reckons" he can put God in his debt...God now owes him something by his own work. And he sees salvation (the reward) as something owed him.

Grace, however...helps a man...in every way...even be reconciled to all his own unGodliness.

By the work...entirely...of another done on his behalf...by and for another.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I testify that while I look for my works to bear fruit...in all frustration...I find a gift extended.

A voice from Heaven.

I am often reminded, as I am so in need of reminding, of how little is apprehended of just how criminal Jesus Christ...appeared.


Seemed.

One might come to understand relationship...both in meaning and understanding. To be there must be understanding of "who is who" that unity might be shown real...and true. Only One is God.

How do we know? Many, many...rebukes.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


I believe it is a good thing you are so devoted to the teaching of the gospel so that in the teaching of the gospel you may learn the gospel, (even as the apostles did) and we also with you.


When a man loves the truth more than he loves the teaching of a thing he begins to see the delight of God in saving him.


And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



This was after all had been told:


And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Is it any wonder the apostle, Peter, said this

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

I am convinced Peter came to understand by remembrance that the difference between his denial and Judas' betrayal not only rested upon Jesus knowing, but Jesus' prayer for him that when he was turned he would strengthen the brethren. "Simon Simon, Satan has desired...But I have prayed for you..."


For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.


I don't know that there is one man that does not encounter this tension, what's news to me...is not news to Him. There's often a struggle found in men to be in the lead, it's in men to want to be ahead of themselves to prevent their own dismay, considering what dismay the "old" nature is heir to.

But the last shall be first.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter #194
OK. Here it is in whole.




The "This" of "This is a plain lie..." is the "If we deny him, he also will deny us" so that that "this" would be the plain lie:



saved men.

It is a lie if

?

God will da'mn...saved men?


Could it be saved men are the men who already know they are condemned...under God's law? And are made able, through Christ to accept it? And being made able by and through the quickening faith of Christ (and by that faith...alone) are now the justified before God?

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

One man "reckons" he can put God in his debt...God now owes him something by his own work. And he sees salvation (the reward) as something owed him.

Grace, however...helps a man...in every way...even be reconciled to all his own unGodliness.

By the work...entirely...of another done on his behalf...by and for another.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I testify that while I look for my works to bear fruit...in all frustration...I find a gift extended.

A voice from Heaven.

I am often reminded, as I am so in need of reminding, of how little is apprehended of just how criminal Jesus Christ...appeared.


Seemed.

One might come to understand relationship...both in meaning and understanding. To be there must be understanding of "who is who" that unity might be shown real...and true. Only One is God.

How do we know? Many, many...rebukes.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


I believe it is a good thing you are so devoted to the teaching of the gospel so that in the teaching of the gospel you may learn the gospel, (even as the apostles did) and we also with you.


When a man loves the truth more than he loves the teaching of a thing he begins to see the delight of God in saving him.


And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



This was after all had been told:


And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Is it any wonder the apostle, Peter, said this

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

I am convinced Peter came to understand by remembrance that the difference between his denial and Judas' betrayal not only rested upon Jesus knowing, but Jesus' prayer for him that when he was turned he would strengthen the brethren. "Simon Simon, Satan has desired...But I have prayed for you..."


For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.


I don't know that there is one man that does not encounter this tension, what's news to me...is not news to Him. There's often a struggle found in men to be in the lead, it's in men to want to be ahead of themselves to prevent their own dismay, considering what dismay the "old" nature is heir to.

But the last shall be first.
Wrong not a lie it just takes only one sin to loose eternal life for you me and anyone else it just took one for Adam to loose it, and were not any better than him.
 
Wrong not a lie it just takes only one sin to loose eternal life for you me and anyone else it just took one for Adam to loose it, and were not any better than him.

Who ever said Adam had eternal life in himself?

Where'd you get that from?

You are right "we're not any better than him"...but Christ is.

Better than the earthy man.

When we see how much better...we won't have pangs about "giving up Adam" as though we betray him (when it is really only ourselves we fear betraying)...I believe that Adam wants himself exposed...(I don't believe his Maker forgot him) just like Peter is delighted his denial is recorded...that Christ be glorified.

Anything you need to know about me? What faults I have of which you may be unaware?
 
Last edited:
Sad you don’t even know that
This feigning of sadness is not merely a tiresome ruse I am a bit too familiar with myself, but rather manipulative in its intentions (also something I am too familiar with).

You are talking to a man steeped in passive aggression (anything else you care to know?)

Jesus Christ is just...aggressive.

Conquerors are.


And it came to pass, when the time had come that He should be received up, He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem
 
Last edited:
If the world does not walk by faith, then someone taken out of the world so as to walk ( operate) by faith is saved from the world. By faith they walk, they operate, they act, they are living by faith.

Now it is possible for someone living by faith, someone knowing the blessing that is to walk by faith, to stop living by faith. It is possible to preach love and have hate, impatience, and so being polite to harbor contempt for the world that God points out He loves. God loves goats... is finely able to. Can you?

Lets take the figure of Lot's wife, a type, who was told to flee and not look back. We all know she did. Lot's wife is a type of the man of iniquity, a type of the anti-Christ and a figure of Judas. Judas in turn is a figure of believers, of people who walk or are surrounded by the protection of the cloud of faith, who knowing better and for reasons much more than being tricked by be devil, by their own accord, perhaps by some anger they carry like a millstone around their necks and so they will look back to the world combining their walk again to the march of the world from which they were once removed of by grace through faith. Simply they sell out.

Having not denied everything in themselves, angry, tired perhaps or because they can read people's faces so they see sin, anger, deceit ---evil spirits with their crushing press on people, it having become too much to bare, and so they look back and go back and arm themselves with the strides of the world or to its foods and drinks and surrender to its false comforts, knowing rightly they are false-- but nevertheless proceed.

Last night I was Judas to friends of mine and many times I was to them in regard as Lots wife, looking back knowing and yet knowing I could look forward in faith. I disguised my anger and my weariness with my friends troubles. I had my back to them in spirit and played at putting my best face forward.

And so I let a spirit overwhelm me because I let it and not looking to Christ, his faith and how he ministers to the world, I saw and became instead the angry old world that I saw and had run away from...and I bought into it...again.

No matter what I say today about being saved, giving my honest testimony of faith, last night I walked with Judas. Not everything in me belongs to Christ and I have to wonder if someday I might just walk away into the sunsets of the world--having seen enough, having lived enough and faith begone. And I think this is possible to get out of the faith, to divorce it, because it seems others have and have willed to remove themselves from it.
 
Last edited:
Top