Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Were we all suppose to get rid or our wives, families, and worldy goods and go to all the nations? Why not if we were the same as the eleven?
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Evangelical Christianity and the Great Commission.
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formula1
Daily Bible Verse Organizer
John 20
24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
How can it be only for the 11, if Jesus told them to teach all disciples "to obey everything he commanded"? Doesn't "everything Jesus commanded" include the Great Commission itself?
Further, this understanding is not limited to "evangelical Christianity" it is very common in the Messianic community as well.
If you're not doing anything to fulfill the Great Commission, you are not obeying "everything Jesus commanded" the Apostles. If your church isn't teaching you to fulfill the Great Commission, your church has failed to teach you to obey "everything Jesus commanded."
Further, this understanding is not limited to "evangelical Christianity" it is very common in the Messianic community as well.
If you're not doing anything to fulfill the Great Commission, you are not obeying "everything Jesus commanded" the Apostles. If your church isn't teaching you to fulfill the Great Commission, your church has failed to teach you to obey "everything Jesus commanded."
Madman
Senior Member
“Wherever the bishop appears, let the congregation be there also. Just as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would look upon the Lord Himself, standing, as he does, before the Lord.”
St. Ignatius of Antioch
It is the responsibility of the bishop to teach the faith exactly as it was taught to him, that the faith may be as it was given from the beginning by Christ, the author of our salvation.
St. Ignatius of Antioch
It is the responsibility of the bishop to teach the faith exactly as it was taught to him, that the faith may be as it was given from the beginning by Christ, the author of our salvation.
formula1
Daily Bible Verse Organizer
Acts 15
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
tell sackett
Senior Member
Huh?
Madman
Senior Member
If everyone is to make disciples, how is the faith to passed on exactly as given? If the modern view of evangelism is correct then why so many different beliefs?
Does the Holy Spirit provide different teachings to so many? How does one dispute anyone who claims to be Christian, no matter their belief?
St. Jude gives a poignant warning to the Church, (Jude 1:3). These were the teachings that were given to the saints 2000 years ago by Christ, not the new teachings that began 500 years ago.
Does the Holy Spirit provide different teachings to so many? How does one dispute anyone who claims to be Christian, no matter their belief?
St. Jude gives a poignant warning to the Church, (Jude 1:3). These were the teachings that were given to the saints 2000 years ago by Christ, not the new teachings that began 500 years ago.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Jesus said whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower.
Some other verse about selling your possessions leaving your family but to be honest it sounds like he was addressing the 12 apostles.
What did Jesus really mean when He said, “Follow me?”
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formula1
Daily Bible Verse Organizer
israel:
‘Dodgy’ indeed! Yet he must learn to listen to the Spirit and the Word in hopes that ‘dodginess’ gets swallowed by LIFE.
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh of s no help at all! The words that I (Jesus) have spoken are spirit and life.”
A man should be cautious in the sense that he should test all spirits. The only problem with that is this question, “What is your source of truth?” Here are my witnesses:
Many of those ‘any others’ are false teachers, but most fall in this category:
Love - that is what do you love more than Me?
Hard to believe man’s love of something can be so misguided. But we have arrived in 2022. I sympathize with your statements. God is indeed our only good! Yet millions of vapors are blowing in the wind and don’t know why. Millions of living breathing Christian vapors who have forgotten what is the heart of God!
Let’s hear the words from roughly 90 AD,
“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.”
This love I believe is referenced in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 also referenced above.
Amazing that nothing has really changed in the ‘dodgy’ man except the depths we will go for excuses.
FYI, I see more than a nose ring. It’s more like a caged animal in a 10’ square who has been there for so long, you can remove the cage and he will prefer the comfort of the square!
I would in my own musings prefer to always be kind, loving and considerate of others ideologies. Always for me it’s about truth and more importantly waking up the man that is ME from his slumber! I thought I would simply share what our Father is saying , at least to me! No one has to listen, no one has to care!
But we don’t have to keep walking in that cage!
Thanks for all of your kind and insightful words! I hope the Holy Spirit bears witness!
Finish this life grandly in Him!!! It won’t be long now!
‘Dodgy’ indeed! Yet he must learn to listen to the Spirit and the Word in hopes that ‘dodginess’ gets swallowed by LIFE.
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh of s no help at all! The words that I (Jesus) have spoken are spirit and life.”
A man should be cautious in the sense that he should test all spirits. The only problem with that is this question, “What is your source of truth?” Here are my witnesses:
- John 4:23-24
- John 8:31-32
- John 14:6
- John 16:13
- Ephesians 4:20-25
- 1 Timothy 2:3-4
- 1 Peter 1:3-12
Many of those ‘any others’ are false teachers, but most fall in this category:
Love - that is what do you love more than Me?
Hard to believe man’s love of something can be so misguided. But we have arrived in 2022. I sympathize with your statements. God is indeed our only good! Yet millions of vapors are blowing in the wind and don’t know why. Millions of living breathing Christian vapors who have forgotten what is the heart of God!
Let’s hear the words from roughly 90 AD,
“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.”
This love I believe is referenced in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 also referenced above.
Amazing that nothing has really changed in the ‘dodgy’ man except the depths we will go for excuses.
FYI, I see more than a nose ring. It’s more like a caged animal in a 10’ square who has been there for so long, you can remove the cage and he will prefer the comfort of the square!
I would in my own musings prefer to always be kind, loving and considerate of others ideologies. Always for me it’s about truth and more importantly waking up the man that is ME from his slumber! I thought I would simply share what our Father is saying , at least to me! No one has to listen, no one has to care!
But we don’t have to keep walking in that cage!
Thanks for all of your kind and insightful words! I hope the Holy Spirit bears witness!
Finish this life grandly in Him!!! It won’t be long now!
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tell sackett
Senior Member
Leaving your family is the cause of my “huh”. Where do we find that? According to 1Tim.5:8 a believer who doesn’t care for his family is worse than an infidel.
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formula1
Daily Bible Verse Organizer
The Gospel
Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
In relation to the price of discipleship;
Luke 14:26
"If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples.
Maybe they had to leave their families for this particular mission? Perhaps they had to reject their family's pleas to stay. Not loving, or hate means simply to put them not first.
Obviously the separation was not permanent. I'm sure they made arrangements for the care of their wives and children if they were married. If they weren't married, they may have waited or maybe decided not to marry.
Men left their wives and children to work frequently in those days. Shepherds spent months at a time in distant grazing grounds away from family. Fishermen might spend weeks away. Or men might work away in nearby cities for months while the family stayed in their villages.
One of the first things I learned in the Navy was "your wife did not come with your seabag." It's not that you don't love your wife. This might not be the best analogy, but when your ship sails, your wife is not first.
The old translations and words don't always cross or translate well. Love is first and hate is second.
" I Loved Jacob, but Esau I Hated"
Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Matthew 8:18-22
“When Jesus saw a crowd around him, he gave orders to go over to the other side and a scribe came up and said to him, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.” Another of the disciple said to him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” And Jesus said to him, “Follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead.”
tell sackett
Senior Member
I am reminded often that one of my greatest blessings in this life is that my wife loves her Lord much more than she loves me.
I am very capable of being both unlovable and unlovely, yet her love for me is steadfast.
I am very capable of being both unlovable and unlovely, yet her love for me is steadfast.
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