False Theories About Grace

[BanjoPicker]

We have many of interpreters who magnify the grace of God above everything else in the program of God. They ignore God's justice, laws, and the conditions governing the attitude and grace of God in the lives of men. They make null and void literally thousands of Scriptures revealing and regulating God's dealings with free moral agents. They state some good things about grace, but they go to the utter extreme in trying to make grace the sum total of all there is about God and His plan.

 

[BanjoPicker]

It is true that from God's standpoint grace cannot be withheld from man because of demerit, it cannot be lessened by demerit, and it cannot be mixed with the law of works; but this does not do away with the fact that there are conditions to meet on the part of man if he wants certain benefits of grace. Not one statement in the whole Bible says that there is an unconditional grace of God to men or that there is a grace from God which men can get if they live as they please in disregard of the laws and justice of God. When we say that grace is not withheld because demerit we simply mean that God's grace will cause Him to forgive all sin when certain conditions are met. When we say that grace is not lessened by demerit we simply mean that sin does not do away with or decrease the grace of God toward a sinner when he meets certain conditions according to the Word of God. When we say it cannot be mixed with the law of works we simply mean that no work of man can merit God's blessings that come only by faith through grace and meeting the plain conditions laid down for a sinner to meet in order to get these blessings.

 

[gemcgrew]

Christ met all of the conditions for His people, according to the election of grace.

Salvation is of the Lord.

 

[Madman]

Perhaps this “election of grace” could be fleshed out.

 

[formula1]

Ephesians 2
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Grace 100% belongs to the Giver and He is supreme! No man has any right to explanation of it. It is only for man to receive as His gift! And God even prepared the works of Grace.

So what can man do!

 

[gordon 2]

He was.

Grace is all that allows a man to know he lives before God, His laws, His justice, His righteousness. His judgments.

Grace teaches the fear of the Lord.

I think sin was the first teacher of the fear of the Lord, if fear is to be due to unfavorable consequence. To say that Grace is all that allows a man to know he lives before God, His laws, his justice...seems to be a false construction simply from our experience of grace and goodness.

Before Cain and the Hebrews was God's grace sealed with the biblical words, " and it was good". I don't think so. God made good on good before he made good on grace. Grace is not the only way to justice... it was not for Abraham or Rebecca his niece. Their relationship with God was not a relationship of grace but one of goodness.

Is it my faith that God is graceful before he is good, or from his goodness followed grace. God made his measure of goodness known before his grace was needed. Which Adam is ours the one not needing grace or the one who knew no grace but what was good ?

What is more important to my life, to know that God is foremost good and good for my life or that that he is foremost graceful and therefore his grace is the door opening to seek my creator who is good. If we are gathered to seek God, the elect must be drawn by good that does not proceed through grace first? From a faith that good is possible I can understand why grace is good and not understand that grace is my door to that which is divinely good.

If it is true that it is best to seek God like a child, then all the doctrines of grace are on point to ask me to know God through a series of serious biblical nightmares. I don't think God would go there with children. Do you? On the other hand if I can need go as a child to God---I must trust on God's dreams of blessings to the house of Abraham simply because Rebecca was besides being beautiful a good person and she trusted God because God was good. By faith Rebecca is my hero, like Abraham she did not guard herself of God's goodness and trusted God for his goodness, unlike which we the children of grace we have come to do for we trust that He is graceful first, a man willing to remove goodness from his persona regards us sinners as the cases require and so we imitate and guard ourselves from our neighbors something Rebecca did not do!!!!!!!!


Does someone know justice mainly due God's grace or mainly due that God is good, and has created goodness? Is God's perfection that which can be revealed to us foremost due his interventions of grace? Or some thing yet more fundamental. Abraham and Rebecca needed not God's grace to trust in his will and so to do justice. To us the children of grace they are seen a righteous but to them they were just being themselves living a faith that God was good.

Peter describes Jesus, his teacher, a man with no sin.

 

[gordon 2]

I can't argue against " 'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved", not because it's anything of itself, I simply cannot deny my place in having learned of it.

Even of Him who knew no sin but is spoken of:

“The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord” (Isaiah 11:2).

Whatever I have of anything...if having anything...is of grace.

I got it. It is your case.

Maybe Fear of the Lord, is not Fear of the Lord all the time, like all is not all all the time.

Anyway it is minor...

Grace for you seems to be the raw recruit drill sergeant of your faith. I'm not sure it was such with me.


Anyway it is minor...

I never really feared the Lord. Instead I feared myself... of which I'm not fully repaired.

Anyway it is minor...

I never did stuff so that I would be loved more. I ever knew I was. I grieved that I could not love more when I failed at it... perhaps.

 

[BanjoPicker]

When a person realizes that he is a sinner, that God's grace is greater than his sins, that he has no merits of his own to earn favor with God, and that he comes to God meeting the requirements of reconciliation he becomes immediately a recipient of God's grace. If God withheld His grace from a penitent sinner because one was a sinner, then no person could be saved. If sin lessened the grace of God to a penitent sinner, then no person could be blessed, for sin would be greater than grace, and sin would not permit grace to be manifest. If blessings were earned by works, then they would not come by grace.

 

[Madman]

He was.

I apologize for my ambiguity.

I should have written 'Perhaps election of grace should be defined".

 

[BanjoPicker]

It is also true that God is not under obligation to save sinners because of some human merit but it is true that God of His own accord and because of grace obligated Himself to pay the debt of sin for man. Since God has accepted of His own free choice the undertaking of paying man's debt, He is now under obligation to man to give each one the same freedom of choice in accepting the cancellation of the debt. God is under obligation now to save those that do accept the work of Christ for them. God cannot in any one case refuse to manifest His grace to any sinner that accepts the work of Christ for him. God is not under obligation to bless any one sinner that refuses and rejects the offer of God and the work of Christ on the cross. The choice is now left up to each sinner and not to the further choice of God. God's choice has already been made, and His work in the paying of man's debt is finished, and He is obligated to give to all who accept the full benefits for which Christ died.

 

[gordon 2]

I did not loose an eye so to speak that I would get more intimate with death, but that I would best cleave to Christ and so live by the spirit, mine and my Lord's. All of my soul's capture handed over to the inner man, to the heirs of David, King, Son of Man and Son of God who rule by the spirit and so by the spiritual man that my hope be not towards vanities, those nasty vanities that confound the man in transition with mischiefs to mischiefs, misfit to misfits, resigned to hopes of resignations and so salved in understandings such as one eyed doctrines of Grace, and other one trick pony riders...

Was Paul's hope vanity? His hope in the resurrection an escape for his life of faith? What doctrines can we decide on love... let us count the stars? If Grace is the trademark of a cymbal are we dying to play it, or we alive to feed it in time?

Would it be possible to loose both eyes and yet see? Now that would be a miracle... except that Paul was blinded so he could. Loosing one eye was not enough for him, his transition was complete after he was made to loose both. Was he vain for not caring about his suffering? He was modest. Something other than vanity drove him to newer, better engagement with others.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The whole issue of Grace has man saying more about it than God. And I have a problem with it because this is how I assimilate it. I might be right, I might be wrong...but I know I am born again...And where I read love some read grace as in God so graced the world that he gave his only begotten son... And grace ( unmerited favor) God with all your heart and ( unmerited favor) your neighbor as yourself...


It just seems to me that love sweeps away our need for happy doctrines... which I fear are but as the vanities that can find the old man in the new man...and so in this way love is swept away... as our busy Martha we add to our listening Mary.

Is grace the fuel that makes God's foods for us more palatable or are His table foods his better works of love. If God has given us Grace then he has given his works of favor to which we add we are underserving- even totally undeserving. If He has given us his love than He has give of Himself which in scripture is thought good... for He loved the world and for this motivation first that we might not perish.

We are new in Christ like this: On Grace we make of it too much and on Love we call it Kumbaya. Such is our generation--- some are elect, some not. Let us gather in the spirit of being guarded--" The swines you know..." But is this the way God sees man when he loves even the world? Why would I love the enemy... some that are doomed in any real case Physical and Spiritual?

Are our children made beautiful by our grace to them or by our love to them? A marriage of souls by favor can turn to one of love. But I favor a marriage made in love for the couple is made beautiful both the soul and the spirit from the beginning of this new life.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Naturally men are saved by grace but not without the free and voluntary choice of acceptance of the work of Christ and proper confession of sins to God and faith in the blood of Christ. All the grace of God in existence could not save one soul if that soul refused the merits of that grace. Thus, in the final analysis man governs his personal salvation by his power of free choice. Salvation is naturally the work of God for man but God cannot save man without his free consent and co-operation with God from the new birth to the grave. So the idea that man's salvation depends ONLY on the grace and on grace ALONE, and that it is the work of God ONLY and the work of God ALONE, is false.

 

[formula1]

Israel,

Thank you! Yet I did not accomplish any shaking. Holy Spirit you are magnificent!

This one word in the passage: ‘Immeasurable’. Try as I might, I cannot grasp such a grace! But what a longing it creates! What an age to come!

Immeasurable blessings to you!

 

[gemcgrew]

So the idea that man's salvation depends ONLY on the grace and on grace ALONE, and that it is the work of God ONLY and the work of God ALONE, is false.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

He shall save His people from their sins.

Salvation is of the Lord.


I have yet to meet a will worshipper that doesn't glory in himself.

 

[BanjoPicker]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

He shall save His people from their sins.

Salvation is of the Lord.


I have yet to meet a will worshipper that doesn't glory in himself.

Look in a mirror.

Grace cannot keep men saved when they are sinning against God (Rom. 8:1-13; James 5:19, 20; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8; 1 Cor. 3:16, 17).

 

[BanjoPicker]

If all depended only and alone upon God to save all sinners and they had nothing to do to get saved, then all would be saved alike by God, for the salvation of all men is His desire (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9). If it were left up to God alone, then He would be under moral obligation to save all regardless of their consent or He would be a respecter of persons and a BREAKER OF HIS OWN LAW (James 2:1, 9).

 

[gemcgrew]

Look in a mirror.

Grace cannot keep men saved when they are sinning against God (Rom. 8:1-13; James 5:19, 20; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8; 1 Cor. 3:16, 17).

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[BanjoPicker]

Grace cannot guarantee eternal life to the saved who commit sin and die (Ezek. 18:4; Rom. 8:12, 13, James 5:19, 20; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8).

 

[gemcgrew]

Grace cannot guarantee eternal life to the saved who commit sin and die (Ezek. 18:4; Rom. 8:12, 13, James 5:19, 20; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8).

Grace secured it in a Substitute, an Advocate.

God sees no sin in His people!

God made me to need His Grace!

Your antics first appeared in the garden. You barely even get my attention.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Grace cannot permit God to be a respecter of persons in judging the sinner for sins and excusing the saved when they commit the same sins (Gal. 6:7, 8; Rom.8:1-13; Ezek. 18:4, 24-28; 33:12-16; Rev. 2:5, 16, 21-22; 3:3).

 

[gemcgrew]

God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.

It is all about God and His Glory.