False Theories About Grace

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
There are no works (of any eternal merit) that are not already prepared, predestined, ordained that are not dependent upon revelation in faith for discovery...for the "walking in" as an apostle put it. These are God's works...the man may be immersed in them, experience them of such personal intensity as to sometimes be confused, but they remain, regardless of any error in interpretation of source, God's work and works. Prepared by Him for the disciple (again)...to walk in.

The Lord made quite clear Himself His dependency upon being "shown"...(and His confidence He would be shown...more) with nothing issuing from Himself, not even the nicest of things. Even the most religious of things.

Not even His words were His own. Or better, specifically...His words were not His own.

Such takes faith to see and believe. And none believe apart from God imparting repentance to such faith.

And it is not the confession of such faith to testify as to what particular estate the man occupies, but the testimony only of the estate Jesus Christ occupies as Lord.

He is not made so by our confession, nor is He established to it by our agreement. It is in truth a truth...and this truth particularly...the gift of God to man, and any particular man given entrance, to speak into the world the first thing he has ever said that is not born of lie. And he will find great benefit, yes, even to himself, to seek out such grace that has delivered him to such consequence.

What works are consequent to this sight of faith and confession are not at the man's discretion. It is never less than...and could never be more than "Do whatever He tells you". Such foolish talk of "I do what the Bible says" or even "I will do what the Bible says" is no more than a man seeking to endorse himself by letters.

Many do, and have taken such stand. "Go into all the world and preach the gospel" is taken as some sort of endorsement of their doing in "see, I am fulfilling (what is called) the great commission" (I do what the Bible says!) when in truth they have not yet had, nor preached the gospel to their very own selves.

But it does "feel good" to self endorse one's self and no man knows the poverty of such until he is shown. And to believe the whole of the world is now their field. It is indeed...but look inside first. There's a whole world of mind, and world minding minding taking place to be renewed. This is where the man will first learn what repentance even means, and the Lord ship of Jesus Christ...before he finds any place from which to commend others to it. The Lord alone knows the readiness of any man.


There was one in beholding the wonder of the Lord wanting to follow (as a member of the Lord's travelling troop) but was told instead to go home and publish what he had seen and heard of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Though his name we do not know, and despite any speculation as to what he may have experienced in being directed...not to what he asked for, but something other...we nevertheless know he obeyed. In a curious way the thing he desired...to follow Jesus but seemed denied...he showed as doing just that...following the Lord's instruction.

Do we doubt Christ enriched him beyond any imagining? No less than the seeming heroes (some who rebuked the Lord, some who mistook their own faithfulness to stay close "even to prison and death") who, nevertheless fulfilled their calling (Judas included, doing according to his appointment), some to glory, one at least to less than. But that man sent home...followed the Lord just as surely.

This ordaining to fruit, and fruit that should remain (as the disciples/apostles were told) would be proven them as they came through the experience of their own manifest frailty. Their boldness in their ordination they now knew was totally unreliant upon anything they had done or could do of, or for themselves.

What they were was made too plain to them...while in same learning the one who had chosen them was Himself making Himself plain to them. They held no illusions about themselves any longer nor about what knowing hand was upon the wheel of all things.

And do not doubt...even if you presently do, that all that might be seen as coming after...the works, the words, the commands, the instructions, the letters did not come forth but from a foundation of having come through that experience of finding themselves far less than once they thought they were. So far less in truth, that there was branding upon them as those who knew no man can do a thing to save himself.

Yes, even when Peter speaks or writes of "save yourselves from this untoward generation" it is in the full knowing and working of such experience of utter failure but for the grace of God in Christ, that he knows he can even speak of He who gave Himself...for him.

Don't be misled into such presumption of thought that even one same word in another mouth means, and can only mean what it means to you. Children do this by slipping into oversize shoes and then go about as "the daddy".

Historians talk of great battles and by imagination even think they can put themselves there in some understanding then of "what it is/was like". To soldiers however, and even if it be in their mouth for speaking, the word battle is not the same...no, not at all. Do you think a soldier so easily fooled by one who reads books or letters...even to "I do what the Bible says" but is manifestly scar less?

One is (or even some are) "curious". Curious as to why repentance is so resisted. The answer is not found in "tell me why you...or some many others (as it is really only a matter of seems to the man, for he knows not) in satisfaction of my curiosity, resist repentance". It is too clear the man has not looked. To where repentance is resisted...otherwise he would have no doubt or curiosity at all about it.

The whole lab is already provided. It's carried with and by every man. And no one who has done the experiments is unaware of how a once curiosity when added to all the heavenly ingredients now provided then blows up in one's own face. The results, though being far too heavenly in their surety (and appear hardly commendable nor recommendable by a visage of torn flesh so distorted now to barely appear as a man) are yet, and nevertheless, because of their result in such heavenly surety, as then come from such as reply..."just do the experiment".


You doubt? Do the experiment. You're curious? Do the experiment.

Surety comes at cost one learns. But not one' s own. Some have gone so far as to mix their own works with God's grace in their lab...ha ha... Have you seen what they look like after doing that one?! it's no wonder few if any want to hear them! Or can.

Or maybe, just maybe...you really haven't been attending as closely as you believe. And it's not as though those who have had such violent explosion in their face would say "gee, I really shouldn't have done that"...they know...even because of grace...it is an unavoidable predestining. Or even "gee, I should have known that would happen!" So they can have no despising for anything that thinks it can "know better"...and actually thinks it does...because that man...is them.

But they also know this...take anything heavenly and try to make some concoction with earthy things and sparks fly. The love of God...and man's love of what he loves...the patience of God...and man's so called "patience", man's notion of salvation, yes even of Heaven...and where God is....man's notion of free...and God's truth of it.

Do the experiments!

Since one cannot help but do...do! And see what is left...when done. See who is left...when done.

I will tell you this...it will not be the heavenly that gets consumed when mixed with all and any that is "of man".

Henceforth know we no man after the flesh. We are ourselves seen in where we are in our experiments...and no less made known of where we are in our experiments.

And what preserves us through them, who preserves us through them as all else goes up in smoke...is He who remains. He who abides.

Paul was not lying in being dead...yet alive to tell the tale.

I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live...yet not I, but Christ lives within me. And the life I live now in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God...who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Go ahead...do that experiment..."but what about all the others, Lord, I am curious...what will this man do, what will be the why of this other man?"

"Lovest thou me?"

Yes...let that experiment be performed.
There are no works (of any eternal merit) that are not already prepared, predestined, ordained
So far..................good. Yes, God will prepare a way for you.

Many do, and have taken such stand. "Go into all the world and preach the gospel" is taken as some sort of endorsement of their doing in "see, I am fulfilling (what is called) the great commission" (I do what the Bible says!) when in truth they have not yet had, nor preached the gospel to their very own selves.

But it does "feel good" to self endorse one's self. Such foolish talk of "I do what the Bible says" or even "I will do what the Bible says" is no more than a man seeking to endorse himself by letters.

Catawampus train wreck. As Trump would say - fake news.

Seriously, that is an arrogant way to address anyone being doers of the heard Word of God and following the leading of the Spirit. If a man feels like God is sending him to Africa then he must follow that leading.

Most are not programmed to align themselves with the mentality of looking at yesterday and saying wow, I was in Africa preaching, it was God`s Will. Some actually have faith it is God`s Will and go preach. Hindsight is 20/20 but it takes zero faith to see yesterday.

You done got all side ways with this works thing trying to make it say something that it is not, no one ever said that works saves you.

Scripture disagrees with you, though. You gotta have works. You gotta follow the instructed Word of God. Scripture tells you why ALL scripture is given. If you can`t follow the instructed Word of God scripture says your faith is dead. If you think works mean more than that then maybe back up a little try again. I have not seen any "pro works" posts indicating that works mean anything more than that.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Why would it be no surprise to me the facility with which you would quote Trump?
Because you went with the Joe Biden approach.

Read Romans 10: 13 - 17 if you still have heart burn on faith / works and following the heard Word of God.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
The doctrine of grace is one of the most simple ones in Scripture. Grace simply means unmerited favor and love of God toward man. If one would understand this fact and apply it to all the works, promises, and dealings of God with man, everything would be very simple to understand. There is nothing God has ever done or ever will do that is not a result of His love and favor. The cross is an act of grace, and to everyone that God blesses in any degree on the basis of the work of the cross, It is a blessing of grace and therefore an act of grace. If God did not favor man with the blessings He gives him, he would never get such benefits. On the other hand, because God favors man and loves him enough to bless him with all that He has promised, everything that He has promised is a promise of grace, and every act He has preforms for man is an act of grace Hence to make grace a super-idea beyond human reason and understanding is to cause confusion. Any theory of grace that slanders God and makes one Scripture a lie is bound to be false itself. Any statement about grace must be in perfect harmony with all Scripture, or it is wrong.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

And you just answer the question about faith without works is dead which is true. God had to do works (grace love and favor for man). To do what he done for man, Jesus had to do works (grace love and favor for man). to do what he done for man, die on the cross, if any man preaches to anyone witnesses to anyone, or anything that is the truth of the Word of God, he is doing works of grace and faith. (Love and favor) because that man has faith by his works. How will they hear or see without works of faith?
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
And you just answer the question about faith without works is dead which is true. God had to do works (grace love and favor for man). To do what he done for man, Jesus had to do works (grace love and favor for man). to do what he done for man, die on the cross, if any man preaches to anyone witnesses to anyone, or anything that is the truth of the Word of God, he is doing works of grace and faith. (Love and favor) because that man has faith by his works. How will they hear or see without works of faith?
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. Wonder if they even attend Sunday services, being scared they’ll give the appearance of working to save themselves ya know.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
It is so comforting to witness the many reasons for periodic revivals. From gold to dross and from dross to gold, the ups and downs of the Hebrews continue for all our understanding.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
If God will not impute sin to those in His favor, then none of us would be sinners and be condemned, for Adam and all the race started out in God's favor. Adam and his race lost God's favor, and sin was imputed to them. So, it is today. No man can sin and get by with it. every one who sins incurs the death penalty and must be redeemed and forgiven again to have the penalty cancelled. Satan told Adam that sin would not cause death. God said it would. Adam believed the devil and died, and so it is with anyone today who believes Satan's lie that death will not result from sin, provided he has ever been in God's favor or grace. Men die just as Adam did and will continue to do so until sin and death are destroyed. There would be no meaning to the many Scriptures on sin and moral responsibility if one could do as he pleased and still be in God's favor.
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
There would be no meaning to the many Scriptures on sin and moral responsibility if one could do as he pleased and still be in God's favor.

It is not about what we are pleased to do. That arises from self, centers in self and ends in self. A man ought to repent of his creature worship.

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
It is not about what we are pleased to do. That arises from self, centers in self and ends in self. A man ought to repent of his creature worship.

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If a man don't know about himself and how his life stands with the Lord if he's a sinner or been saved and backslides, then he would never get saved and would go to He11.
And if people knew about the Bible as they do about self they would be in a lot better condition than some is.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
The passages used to teach unconditional favor of God can be and must be harmonized with the many hundreds which teach that man can lose God's favor again through sin. No man can separate another man from the love of God, but sin can. This has been the only that ever, separated God and man. God Himself said "Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear (Isa. 59:2) and this will always be the case. God cannot and will not tolerate sin in anyone. This is why He gave Jesus by grace to save all men from their sins, and those who do not chose the salvation of God will die in their sins regardless of the work of Christ on the cross.
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
If a man don't know about himself and how his life stands with the Lord if he's a sinner or been saved and backslides, then he would never get saved and would go to He11.
And if people knew about the Bible as they do about self they would be in a lot better condition than some is.
Free Grace can shut a man up to his words.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
There are many passages which teach that a man can be eternally secure in Christ on condition that he gets saved and stays saved (2 Tim. 1:12; Jude 24; 2 Pet. 1:3-9; Jn. 15:1-7; Heb. 6:1-9; 10:26-29). Man will always be a free moral agent regardless of his relationship with God. It is the life of God that is eternal, and the believer has it as long as he remains in Christ. The minute he gets out of Christ he loses that life even though it is eternal. And eternal thing may be lost, and there is all the difference between an eternal thing and the eternal possession of a thing forever, for God is eternal.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
You left Lucifer out and Demons who were one time in God's favor and grace, and as sinless in the beginning. Abaddon Apollyon, Demons locusts, Demon horsemen, Pre-Adamites, Adam and Eve and the whole race were once in God's favor, but they sinned and died because of Sin (Gen. 2:17; 3:1-19; Rom. 5:12-21). Adam is called "the son of God" in Luke 3:38, so here is another example of a "son of God " falling from grace and losing eternal life by sin.
 

BanjoPicker

Senior Member
It may appear to these interpreters that some are making Man's will greater than the grace of God. But this answer that is true not only of grace but of many other attributes of God that cannot possibly bless rebels when they choose not to accept of these blessings. It is not so much that man's will is greater than any attribute of God, but that God cannot do, and he has promised not to do certain things for man until man accepts of His grace and freely chooses and submits to the work of God in him. GOD SIMPLY CANNOT AND WILL NOT BREAK HIS OWN LAWS AND BE A DESPOT FOR ANY MAN. HE WILL NOT FORCE ANY FREE MORAL AGENT TO CONFORM TO HIS WILL. Therefore it is up to free moral agents to choose whether they want God's grace, love, or favor and to what extent. If it were left wholly up to God's will in the matter, then all free moral agents would conform to His will, and all would be blessed alike, and all would enjoy the grace and favor of God to the full. As it is now, no one can accuse God of not having love for all men if they want to become recipients of that love. The fact that all are not saved and even all the saved do not partake of God's love to the same extent proves that God's blessings according to His grace are not wholly dependent upon Him. Neither are they wholly dependent upon free will man. IT TAKES BOTH THE WILL OF GOD AND THE WILL OF MAN IN FULL CO-OPERATION TO DEMONSTRATE THE FULLNESS OF GOD'S LOVE AND GRACE. One cannot work for the good of one master when he is serving the other. Thus God's grace or love is naturally limited by the free moral agency of man.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Why does a man lie?

A man lies to establish his own credibility.

What he may claim to uphold if differing in spirit from what he does uphold should not be of such impenetrability of understanding to the believer.

Let us take two examples, one used in support of a position that is also used alternately to support an opposing position for convenience.

In one example the contention is that salvation, as able to be lost is supported in all by Judas fall subsequent to being at "one time" a true disciple as testified to his preaching and whatever working of miracles may have taken place at his hands. This so called "proves" Judas was once saved, and in argument as such salvation as can be lost...and the proof of this is the power assumed manifested at one time through him.

But the corollary to this, no less made by those who seek to hold claim upon such salvation by their testimony of miracles and prophesying "in the Lord's name" are not told "those were not true miracles" or any such...but "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you."

To set the testimony to miracles or even some manifestation as power manifest as sufficient proof is in clear rebuke, for the Lord's words are not anything but "I never knew you".

Of course this holds no proof for any position regarding an individual's estate...except that any trust in either presumption of manifestations of power, or wrong inference ensures nothing.

Does the Lord say such will follow those who believe...yes. But never are they given as testimony, or to be understood as testimony that if in some performance of power the Lord's knowing of that man is assured as true for confidence.

If a man is cautioned against holding such first (the work of the gospel is always first to the man) how much more is caution to those who would presume to teach to not set before another such false indications for trust?
In one example the contention is that salvation, as able to be lost is supported in all by Judas fall subsequent to being at "one time" a true disciple as testified to his preaching and whatever working of miracles may have taken place at his hands. This so called "proves" Judas was once saved, and in argument as such salvation as can be lost...and the proof of this is the power assumed manifested at one time through him.
I think you missed it, it is a-lot bigger than Judas. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. How that happen, that Christ has become no effect to you and that fall from grace thing? Seems that at one point Christ was an effect to you and you were in Grace? Interesting how that be.

But the corollary to this, no less made by those who seek to hold claim upon such salvation by their testimony of miracles and prophesying "in the Lord's name" are not told "those were not true miracles" or any such...but "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you."

Only by those who seek to hold claim upon such salvation by their miracles and prophesying.
 
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BanjoPicker

Senior Member
Grace cannot set aside forever all condemnation for future sins. It can only set aside condemnation as long as a man stays free from sin. The modern fallacy that judicial forgiveness covers ALL sins, past, present and future, that God does not impute sins of believers to them, and that God never condemns a saved man for any sins committed, but charges them to the Lord Jesus Christ, IS ONE OF THE MOST UNSCRIPTURAL AND DEMON-INSPIRED THEORIES IN ANY CHURCH. It is by those who hold to such a theory that not even earthly courts could punish the same man for his crime two different times and that Christ bore the sins of all men he cannot bear them twice. This is all true as far as it goes, but it is only half truth. Christ bore sins of all, but no one gets saved until he repents and asks for mercy.
 
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