God Is Omniscient

Thread starter #1
The Bible makes many simple statements that limit God's knowledge. There would be no sense to such passages if we do not believe them literally. There is no meaning to them if we take them figuratively. There was no object in God saying such things about Himself if they were untrue. God gets to know things concerning the free moral actions of men as others do ( Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18:21; 22:12; 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10; Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; Ps. 139:1-6; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Rom. 8:27; 1 Thess. 2:4 ). God sends messengers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all that they find in the earth that goes on ( Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10, 11; Heb. 2:4 ). God does not take care of every detail of His vast business in all the kingdoms of the universe. His agents help Him and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angels are responsible to God for carrying out His will in almost infinite detail concerning the billions of suns, moons, planets and all free moral agents on them. God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events, nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all acts and events from all eternity past. Several times God, Himself said of certain events that they did not come into His mind ( Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21 ). God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked ( Gen. 6:5-7 ). That they would plan Babel ( Gen. 11:5-7 ); That Sodom would be so wicked ( Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32 ); that Abraham would actually proceed to offer up Isaac ( Gen. 22:12 ). God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him ( Ex. 4:1-12 ); or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him, or not ( Dt. 8:2, 16 ). He did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did ( Dt. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19 ). Furthermore, He searchers to find men whom He can bless ( 2 Chr. 16:9 ); He discovers deep things ( Job 12:22 ); tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them ( Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23, 24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chr. 28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10; Rev. 2:23 ). Proving all men for the same reason ( Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 81:7 ).
 
Thread starter #4
God sends messengers throughout the whole of His vast creations to find out for Him what He wants to know, the same as the head of any other business would be likely to do, so that plans may be made and actions taken accordingly, examples of such agency constantly reporting to God can be found in Gen18:21, 22; Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10, 11; Heb. 1:14; 2:2; Rev. 1:1; 7:1-3; 8:2-13; 9:1; 14:6-20; 15:1-8; 16:1-21; 18:21; 22:6, 8, 9, 16 ).
The 6,468 commands in the Bible regulating man as to his part in the eternal plan of God and setting forth his responsibility to God and man, the 1,260 promises of curses and blessings, rewards or loss of rewards, the hundreds of warnings, curses, blessings and dealings of God on the basis of conformity to His will, the 1,522 "if's" and the many hundreds of conditional requirements of God throughout Scripture are sufficient proof that God does not cause all acts and events by His own decrees--and sufficient proof that He changes His own dealings with men, as they conform or refuse to conform to His will. Such facts and many others make it clear that God does not know from all eternity what any one man will do, much less what different types and dispositions of men will do under various circumstances that are not yet present to deal with.
 
Thread starter #5
We have no statement in the entire Bible saying that God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past; or that He has fixed decrees choosing and predestinating all the thoughts, acts, and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future.
God's eternal plan for man is known from the beginning to the end and what He plans to bring to pass on Earth He has power to do, but concerning the free actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity what they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. He does not know which ones will be saved and which ones will be lost. He has made a plan for all to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan are blessed with predestined blessings. Those who willfully rebel will be cursed with predestined punishments according to the plan. It is the plan that is known from the beginning to the end, not the individual conformity to it by free moral agents. It is left up to each person to choose his own destiny. God wills all men to be saved but if man does not choose to be saved that is his responsibility ( 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet.3:9; John 3:16; Rev. 22:17 ).
 

Israel

Senior Member
Gee...it sounds like God is "waiting" (subject to time) to find out how this all plays out...to discover who/whom is His own, not knowing.

Doesn't that smell a little fishy?

I'm quite persuaded it is a good thing a man is troubled (even if it be at first) that God knows all things of every situation (in our experience of time/times) and that such troubling must come to the creature that once thought it could hide from God (both itself and its doings)...a notion only made plain after disobedience had corrupted knowledge and understanding.

The fall may seem to have a gradual outworking (even as salvation only seems to have a gradual working) but as sin's corruption is immediate (even to the folly that a man might hide from his Maker) so the salvation that has come to put us at peace with God, the all knowing God (for there be gods many and lords many) is in truth "at work" (in us) from the moment we experience new birth through the faith of Christ revealed. Our consciousness is captured by "a" striking truth...cutting even to the root and through it...of our attachment to earth and earthy understandings.

Such confidence in God's knowing is a path and way that at first is very strange to our consciousness, sometimes even provoking (in, or through, our own ignorance) the folly of "trying to show" one is His. What a horrific burden it is! To take on "trying to show" God anything...even to the particular matter and case of "trying to show God" one is His child...(or anyone else for that matter). And though God is in all loving patience toward us, it is no less this loving patience to disabuse us of all folly, relentlessly.

God displays what is (Himself in and through Christ) and the lie of what is not...cannot stand. Such is not unlike the sculptor who, when asked "how do you sculpt an elephant?" replied "Simple, take away all the parts that don't look like an elephant".

This work of God, both relentless and true in the exposure to our sight of things worthless, temporal, or non eternal and fading glory (which at the first seem advantage to us) Paul well understood. "How" he gained was not made separate from this work...submitted to God for the cutting away of that useless flotsam and jetsam he once trusted in to keep him afloat.

Having seen the very Christ of God had come for him in such manner in complete contrariety to "how" he once imagined Messiah "must be" (and many yet do)...the humility of Christ's submission gripped him as no other "thing" could. And so even as He saw Christ made willing to be reduced (and specifically as he once confessed to this end in seeing the glory of His love for him, Paul..."who loved ME, and gave himself for ME") even so...he sought, and said as he sought..."to know nothing among you but Christ...and Him crucified"

This seeking revealed those things hindering such right manifestation, this matter to which he sought to not be disobedient...that "heavenly vision". Called to display the glory he had been shown meant for him the abasement of all that would, and did... constitute "once advantage".

Even so much so that in truth he might say a thing so very profound as to be disturbing to the ear of what imagines what holiness might say:

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Paul, in such union with Christ (and to be no less to our understanding lest even his co-labors have been in vain) as to be willing to be "cut off" for the sake of those whose need of Christ weighed in such measure upon him in grievous love.

Grievous love itself sounds...too...what? Heretical? False? All of untrue?

Will a man have all of Christ?

Then he must no less enter into such experience of His as "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabacthani"...where the following even leads to all "feeling" of forsaken.

Christ never hid, nor hides from His own...anything. We may find Him in all...provoking...but He is never...a tease.

No, I do not recommend any man seek to make, nor even "try" to make any depth of despair his experience. Our courses are already charted...quite personally.

But how you see and hear will show. What you see and hear will show. The limits to what each one believes Christ gives, will give, or can give in His sharing also will, no less.

To some He said "you will indeed drink of my cup"...and these are those whose testimony we have come to trust in as blessed men...even Paul...who might even wish Himself accursed from Christ in his desire to fulfill this confession:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Yes, Paul knew the terror of the Lord. It made him...persuasive.
 
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gemcgrew

Senior Member
God sends messengers throughout the whole of His vast creations to find out for Him what He wants to know
Tell us more about these messengers that increase this god's knowledge. You know, the ones that enlighten him and move him from a state of ignorance into a state of learnedness. How is it that they are not more worthy of worship?
 
Tell us more about these messengers that increase this god's knowledge. You know, the ones that enlighten him and move him from a state of ignorance into a state of learnedness. How is it that they are not more worthy of worship?
Thanks for asking. I was too dumbstruck to formulate a question.
 
Thread starter #9
An ignorant god is not God at all.
Gen. 3:9 And the LORD God Called unto Adam, and said unto him, ( GOD SAID ) Where art thou ?

Gen. 3:10 And he said I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hide my self.

Gen. And he said, ( GOD SAID ) Who told thee that thou wast naked? ( GOD ASK ) Hast thy eaten of the tree, wherefore I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Gen. 3:12 And the man said. The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I did eat.

Gen. 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman ( GOD SAID ) What is this that has done? and the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Now I ask you WHEY DID GOD ASK Adam an Eve THIS? I think its saying He didn't know or he wouldn't have had to ask.

Tell me your thoughts on it please
 
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Thread starter #10
Tell us more about these messengers that increase this god's knowledge. You know, the ones that enlighten him and move him from a state of ignorance into a state of learnedness. How is it that they are not more worthy of worship?
No where in this thread did I say God was ignorant, I know that he is not ! The Bible calls His messengers Angels or Spirit beings.

Gen. 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.

and you can read the rest of the chapter of what they did.

Now I ask you This question why did God send two angels to Sodom and Gomorrah ( WHY DIDN'T GOD GO ? ). I would like to know your thoughts or answer?
 
I think God's Messengers were delivering messages to humans from God. I looked but I couldn't find any verses where God sent out any Messengers to gather information for him.

Parents sometimes ask children questions like God asked Adam to see if they will confess. I'm pretty sure God was aware of what Adam had just done.
 

Israel

Senior Member
I think God's Messengers were delivering messages to humans from God. I looked but I couldn't find any verses where God sent out any Messengers to gather information for him.

Parents sometimes ask children questions like God asked Adam to see if they will confess. I'm pretty sure God was aware of what Adam had just done.
Yet He knew he wouldn't...confess. But Adam had so many things to learn (as God planned) about consequences that, like you, I'm also pretty sure God had already planned as part of "Let us make man in our image and in our likeness".

The ones given to see the resurrection that is in Christ (as He is) are being persuaded to faith in that good consequence a man can experience through the grace of God. This is the man God has full fellowship in; the mature Son "of man" made in His image and in His likeness.
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
Now I ask you WHEY DID GOD ASK Adam an Eve THIS? I think its saying He didn't know or he wouldn't have had to ask.

Tell me your thoughts on it please
I think that I will refer you to your title of this thread "God Is Omniscient". Everything that you've posted after that is a refutation of the title. That makes this a bunch of meaningless, self-refuting statements.

You think He didn't know or He wouldn't have had to ask?

We know that the God of the Bible doesn't need anything. The Bible tells us this. That is how we know that He didn't need information from Adam or Eve. He knows everything because He causes everything.
 
Yet He knew he wouldn't...confess. But Adam had so many things to learn (as God planned) about consequences that, like you, I'm also pretty sure God had already planned as part of "Let us make man in our image and in our likeness".

The ones given to see the resurrection that is in Christ (as He is) are being persuaded to faith in that good consequence a man can experience through the grace of God. This is the man God has full fellowship in; the mature Son "of man" made in His image and in His likeness.
Good point in God already knowing Adam would not confess. I'm sure God asking was for Adam's benefit, not God trying to gain knowledge or to get Adam to confess.
I think sometimes parents still ask kid knowing they won't confess but perhaps to teach them is some way. Maybe an awareness of just what parents know or what God knows.

In what part of God' image was it Adam needed to learn?
 

Israel

Senior Member
Good point in God already knowing Adam would not confess. I'm sure God asking was for Adam's benefit, not God trying to gain knowledge or to get Adam to confess.
I think sometimes parents still ask kid knowing they won't confess but perhaps to teach them is some way. Maybe an awareness of just what parents know or what God knows.

In what part of God' image was it Adam needed to learn?
Yes...the man had already displayed full corruption of his understanding..."trying" to hide from his Maker...

Maybe an awareness of just what parents know or what God knows.
Yes!
 
Thread starter #17
Zech. 1:7-11 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah , the son of Iddo the prophet saying.

This second message was given three months after the one of v 1-6 on the 2nd year of Darius ( v 7 ).

Zech. 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.

The riders of the horses--red, speckled, and white-- are invisible agencies of God sent forth into the earth to accomplish various missions. They are God's scouts that report conditions to Him. These reported that all the earth was still and at peace ( v 8-11 ). The horses are not symbolic at all, but real and literal creatures, actual spirit horses created to live on the planet heaven and used by those going back and forth between earth and heaven for the purpose seen here, and perhaps in many other capacities. That spirit horses do exist is clear from v 8-11; 6:1-8; 2 Ki. 2:11; 6:14-17; Rev. 19:11-12 ).

Zech. 1:9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? and the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.

This Angel was the same as the man among the myrtle trees, of v 8-10. The other riders were angels. the passage affirms this fact, that both God and angels can and do ride spirit horses. Proof this Angel was god: Zechariah addressed Him as Lord ( 1:9, 12, 13, 20 ).

Zech. 1:10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.
Zech. 1: 11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

The riders on the other horses are explained to be persons whom the Lord had sent forth to walk to and fro through the whole earth as scouts, to report conditions in the various nations ( v 10, 11 ). This is evidently one of the ways God receives information concerning things. also see Gen. 5-8; 18:20-22; 22:12.
 
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