Grace without dilution

Thread starter #1
In my perception, why most of Christianity is scared to death of the simple gospel of grace minus the complicated, man-made additives of speculation, is so many are scared to death if they begin believing we are totally forgiven rather than forgiven a sin at a time, if we are made righteous in one fell swoop rather than gradually over decades of "living for God," if we are made alive to God through Christ's death and his resurrection alone, all as a gift and not of our works as the gospel of grace says is true of every believer in Christ, it will strip them of brownie points they believe they are earning in exchange for their fighting temptation, pressing on, "trusting God" to reveal his will for their life, etc... that distinguish them with God from those less spiritual than they.

These folks judge grace from afar and they fear the equal ground that unity in Christ stands on.

Bondage to fear and disunity has become an up close friend and freedom from afar that unites us seems like an enemy!

Grace not only removes every inferior motivation for upright living, God and his grace forever take the ball out of his court in Heaven, placing his son in us on earth and putting the ball squarely where it belongs: in our court with Christ in us.

Viewed from afar, grace is scary.

The good news is once grace is experienced up close and personal there's no reason to fear.

Grace received always produces love joy and peace, both inside us as well as among our fellows.

To know grace is to know God’s good intentions toward you and know that Jesus death and resurrection accomplished it all for you.

But folks sure do get scared when they judge grace from afar.

“For you have not received a spirit of bondage leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"” Romans‬ ‭8:15‬

- Eric Rukin
 

Israel

Senior Member
In my perception, why most of Christianity is scared to death of the simple gospel of grace minus the complicated, man-made additives of speculation, is so many are scared to death if they begin believing we are totally forgiven rather than forgiven a sin at a time, if we are made righteous in one fell swoop rather than gradually over decades of "living for God," if we are made alive to God through Christ's death and his resurrection alone, all as a gift and not of our works as the gospel of grace says is true of every believer in Christ, it will strip them of brownie points they believe they are earning in exchange for their fighting temptation, pressing on, "trusting God" to reveal his will for their life, etc... that distinguish them with God from those less spiritual than they.

These folks judge grace from afar and they fear the equal ground that unity in Christ stands on.

Bondage to fear and disunity has become an up close friend and freedom from afar that unites us seems like an enemy!

Grace not only removes every inferior motivation for upright living, God and his grace forever take the ball out of his court in Heaven, placing his son in us on earth and putting the ball squarely where it belongs: in our court with Christ in us.

Viewed from afar, grace is scary.

The good news is once grace is experienced up close and personal there's no reason to fear.

Grace received always produces love joy and peace, both inside us as well as among our fellows.

To know grace is to know God’s good intentions toward you and know that Jesus death and resurrection accomplished it all for you.

But folks sure do get scared when they judge grace from afar.

“For you have not received a spirit of bondage leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"” Romans‬ ‭8:15‬

- Eric Rukin
The call remains. The days may seem to change.
But the call remains.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
In my perception, why most of Christianity is scared to death of the simple gospel of grace minus the complicated, man-made additives of speculation, is so many are scared to death if they begin believing we are totally forgiven rather than forgiven a sin at a time, if we are made righteous in one fell swoop rather than gradually over decades of "living for God," if we are made alive to God through Christ's death and his resurrection alone, all as a gift and not of our works as the gospel of grace says is true of every believer in Christ, it will strip them of brownie points they believe they are earning in exchange for their fighting temptation, pressing on, "trusting God" to reveal his will for their life, etc... that distinguish them with God from those less spiritual than they.

These folks judge grace from afar and they fear the equal ground that unity in Christ stands on.

Bondage to fear and disunity has become an up close friend and freedom from afar that unites us seems like an enemy!

Grace not only removes every inferior motivation for upright living, God and his grace forever take the ball out of his court in Heaven, placing his son in us on earth and putting the ball squarely where it belongs: in our court with Christ in us.

Viewed from afar, grace is scary.

The good news is once grace is experienced up close and personal there's no reason to fear.

Grace received always produces love joy and peace, both inside us as well as among our fellows.

To know grace is to know God’s good intentions toward you and know that Jesus death and resurrection accomplished it all for you.

But folks sure do get scared when they judge grace from afar.

“For you have not received a spirit of bondage leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"” Romans‬ ‭8:15‬

- Eric Rukin

It is possibly that the "simple gospel of grace" that we are totally forgiven does have boots on the ground-- and people don't like the memory or sounds of them. People tend to love and prize a lot of things other than God, and that they are willing to sin for, live and die for. When you are totally forgiven because you are saved and God has your back for sundry other reasons as well, tossing your enemy out of a flying helicopter for them is small stuff, a bayonet charge for them with empty barrels against grape shot is small stuff, selfish living for them is small stuff, murder for them is small stuff, neglect for them is small stuff, stealing for them is small stuff, lying for them is small stuff, spinning for them is small stuff, hating for them is small stuff and many other things besides are justified contrary to grace itself.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
It is possibly that the "simple gospel of grace" that we are totally forgiven does have boots on the ground-- and people don't like the memory or sounds of them. People tend to love and prize a lot of things other than God, and that they are willing to sin for, live and die for. When you are totally forgiven because you are saved and God has your back for sundry other reasons as well, tossing your enemy out of a flying helicopter for them is small stuff, a bayonet charge for them with empty barrels against grape shot is small stuff, selfish living for them is small stuff, murder for them is small stuff, neglect for them is small stuff, stealing for them is small stuff, lying for them is small stuff, spinning for them is small stuff, hating for them is small stuff and many other things besides are justified contrary to grace itself.
I think I'm with you. Are you saying if we believe once saved by grace, always saved by grace, (my words) then we may be more likely to let "small sins" slide then if we concious of our actions?
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I think I'm with you. Are you saying if we believe once saved by grace, always saved by grace, (my words) then we may be more likely to let "small sins" slide then if we concious of our actions?

Correct, and big ones and go all in on erroneous ways of being Christians yet calling ourselves Christians. History is full of examples, recent and old. For example if personal freedom or personal gain is my major focus to the point of sanctioning social evils in the name of "my way of life" first I will try to find in scripture valid verses to say they are not evil or that I am to differ to kings and leaders because scripture says so and next if they still are sinful acts after trying to varnish them with scripture then I'm saved-- and so it's not my problem.

Plus there is a set of people and they are not really rare, that will without cowering do what they morally are against in order(s) to feed their families, or keep their employ or grow businesses, to social climb, and further careers... not because they are poor but because they are rich, intelligent and extrovert and deserving in the prosperity of their gospel as they understand it as part of their Christianity.

A lot of people do what they are told to do and to believe by their superiors in civilian life, in the church, in political life, not only in the military. Though they claim to be Christians and God is teaching them directly and are saved and justified, and of spiritually renewed hearts and minds, and yet they have an out when spinning the hearts and minds of the worldly in order to gain what is in reality pagan gains.

And then there is a set of Christians who are associates of those who fear being nobodies. And when you are a nobody you try to be a somebody. Alot of people who declare themselves Christian are fear and hate peddlers--- because it is a sure way to be somebody when your a nobody and want to be a somebody. And so the hate and the fear is not really an issue with some of the totally forgiven.

So the doctrine of total forgiveness for me is hopeful thinking gone viral as to poison grace itself and not because of God's nature, but because of human nature--even within the body of believers. And if you don't understand where I'm coming from maybe you might in this: Why is Dissenter Christianity and its heirs in need of periodic revivals? Revivals where believers are re-evangelized or doctored with the flood tides of new doctrine which in fact fracture the solidarity of believers with the believers of their own past. Scripture is like a frontier land grab to doctrineers where the land mass is endless and the word of God is made to make Natives move over! And in it for themselves all the sins of the past, the present and future are forgiven.

It is always easier to fly flags higher than the cross-- even for believers. Dangle a flag or an ism and tag it with Jesus... and the tower of babble is not far away.
 
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Israel

Senior Member
I know of no cure for the rebel but grace, no hope nor help for the resister, the contrarian, but grace. Nothing to "sensitize" a conscience but grace, and I know of only one source. The one I am found of, the one made willing to seek and find me...and there, as need be...graciously show me where I have acted without grace.

And make plain if surely left to my own self, I could not begin to know anything of my estate. What, when revealed, merits to my sight nothing but the blade to a cutting off..."my God, my God, what have I done!" Clearly I deserve nothing more than a "taking out" for my malice and harm...



There is a point reached in this "Movie" when all of his own sin (Scrooge) is so heaped to him he recognizes nothing but despair for himself, and rightly to himself. And he has no plea against it, nor even desire to escape it...but only one plea...that if there be some way, some way at all that despite his doing, and incrimination of himself by his harsh doing, that has cost Tiny Tim his life...that one thing might be granted...the life of Tiny Tim.
At that point, in that place...it is all he has any strength to ask...neither knowing nor caring that he knows he has no place from which to ask...he yet asks.

Jesus said a thing about the children of this age being wiser than the children of light, and I do not know if any of this was written or performed by any who claim to be a believer in Jesus Christ...yet somehow...they see "that place"...where man has no right to ask...yet is so provoked to by the revelation of a righteous judgment levied against him he can no longer excuse by cleverness, nor deny... that place of asking is found.

The thief said "we get what we deserve...but this man has done nothing wrong"

What grace is given to give him time to form a plea..."Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom"

God help us.

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Any of "my" spiritual exercise done in disregard of this...where either I have a knowing of injury...or even imagine my brother may believe he has been injured by me...will only be to further injury if not heeded.

God help me. A conscience not buttressed "against the Lord" by searing, can it be made so by anything but grace? And if so, I believe the man will know this.

“A Christian is the most miserable happy person this side of He11 and will never be satisfied until he awakes in the likeness of Christ.” ~ Rolfe Barnard
 

Madman

Senior Member
I enjoyed "Bohemian Rhapsody" the best scene in the movie is where Mary leaves Freddie. In this clip, unfortunately it is cut out, she says, "you are loved, by me by Brian............"

That is humanity, we are loved by God, but we chase the "garbage" of the world looking for what is given to us by grace.

Heart breaking.


Later in the movie Freddie comes back and ask for the bands forgiveness, same as the Prodigal son, and it is given, but forgiveness needs to be asked for.

'A broken and contrite heart"
 
Thread starter #10
We live FROM this new life in Christ, not FOR it. And, we take not an ounce of credit for the grace that supplied it freely.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.


A final comforting note for the storm tossed ...

Jesus is our fullness who fills all in all [Ephesians 1:23] ... AND SO HE HAS! He has filled us fully and completely with Himself [Colossians 2:10], having first offered Himself as the perfect Lamb of God, taking away our sins and remembering them no more. We are now IN Christ ... and Christ is IN us [John 14:20]. Not only that, but we have the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing us that we are His kids [2 Corinthians 1:22]. In every way possible in our new creation [2 Corinthians 5:17] hearts and our spirits. We share His DNA in both His "Likeness" [created in righteousness and holiness of the truth - Ephesians 4:24] and "Oneness" [John 17:22-23] of knowing Him [John 17:3].

In Him you move, live and have your very being [Acts 17:28]! From your innermost being now flows a river of Living Water [John 7:38]. You move forward now never hungering or thirsting for spiritual rest or wanting to know Him ... because His Spirit testifies with your Spirit that you are His [Romans 8:16]
 
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