How do you define “sin”?

[BANDERSNATCH]

Think about what Romans 11 is saying. God harden Israel's heart to allow salvation to go to the Gentiles. He gave them a long list that he knew they could not keep. Their trespass meant riches for the world, and their failure meant riches for the Gentiles.

Then that makes God a liar, since He told Isreal (us) that what He was asking of them is EASY. John the apostle also tells us that keeping His commandments is easy. (I JN 5:3) Many Christians think that there is no burden when you are a believer, but that makes Jesus a liar, too, as He said that there is a yoke and burden, both easy.

 

[Artfuldodger]

LOL and then in chapter 6 Paul tells us to keep commandment #5... obviously Paul, who loved the Law per Romans 7, didn't think the Law was abolished. Matter of fact, in Acts 21 he goes to great lengths to prove to people that he, too, WALKS UPRIGHT and keeps the Law. (BTW, false witnesses are still today saying the same thing about Paul, that he taught against the Law)

Jesus Himself said that He would not abolish the Law, and that it was eternal. Matthew 5:17

I'm sure Paul did support the Law. He also added to it with all those rules for women. Still what does this verse from Paul say? 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Maybe Paul taught against the law and for the Law. He taught about Free will and destination. Grace and Works. Election of a Remnant by Grace alone.

Peter warns believers (us) in II Peter 3:15-17 that its easy to misunderstand Paul, and that many did and were carried away with the error of LAWLESS MEN. I'm sure you'll agree, it's easy to misunderstand Paul.

 

[gemcgrew]

Peter warns believers (us) in II Peter 3:15-17 that its easy to misunderstand Paul, and that many did and were carried away with the error of LAWLESS MEN. I'm sure you'll agree, it's easy to misunderstand Paul.

And then there are some men who have such little regard for the law, they believe they can keep it.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The whole purpose of the Law and sin was to show us that we could not keep it. Israel never had a chance. This was God's plan to bring salvation the the world. The Word was already with God before time. He already knew his mission. God "gave" us his Son. Israel was the path, and God hardened their hearts to make his plan come about.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

I'm sure Paul did support the Law. He also added to it with all those rules for women. Still what does this verse from Paul say? 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.

The Greek word there for decrees is ‘dogma’, and in the Septuagint it never is used of Mosaic law, only decrees of kings and rulers. It’s obvious that what he is referring to are the man made laws of the Pharisees, which prevented Gentiles from coming into the temple. The temple was always to be a place of prayer FOR ALL NATIONS, but Jews had put up a barrier. Paul himself had to be shown that in the Acts 10 vision

 

[Artfuldodger]

Peter warns believers (us) in II Peter 3:15-17 that its easy to misunderstand Paul, and that many did and were carried away with the error of LAWLESS MEN. I'm sure you'll agree, it's easy to misunderstand Paul.

Then who is mis-understanding him, me or you?

Paul also says in Romans 11 that we won't understand God.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

And then there are some men who have such little regard for the law, they believe they can keep it.

No one can keep it perfectly....and THATS WHERE GRACE COMES IN! Grace was never meant to be a license for sin, but something that frees us to obey without fear of failing.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, not the blessings.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Then who is mis-understanding him, me or you?

Paul also says in Romans 11 that we won't understand God.

Just saying that Peter warns us not to listen to men who ignore the law. Lawless men

 

[NCHillbilly]

Many are okay with religion, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their lives. Bandersnatch.

If God comes down and tells me not to do something, I'll listen. Personally, I don't really live my life according to what some old Jewish writer a thousand years ago thought I should do and not do.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

If God comes down and tells me not to do something, I'll listen. Personally, I don't really live my life according to what some old Jewish writer a thousand years ago thought I should do and not do.

One vote for ‘subjective’.

 

[Artfuldodger]

No one can keep it perfectly....and THATS WHERE GRACE COMES IN! Grace was never meant to be a license for sin, but something that frees us to obey without fear of failing.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, not the blessings.

The Law a curse? Wasn't this to show us that man could never be expected to keep it? How could God send His son to Redeem us if we were able to keep it? How could salvation ever go out to the world, as Paul explains it in Romans 11, if Israel had been able to keep the Law? I'm glad that they weren't able to do it. Their curse was my salvation.

The Law was also a blessing. I'm sure blessed by it. Without the Law, I would never gain Everlasting Life. God would have never needed to send His Son.

 

[NCHillbilly]

One vote for ‘subjective’.

Whatever. Last time I checked, I'm not a Hebrew living in the Middle East in Biblical times. You can pretend you are all you want if it makes you feel better. I'll eat my bacon, thank you. If God created me and wanted me to not sin, he shouldn't have made me sinful and then tell me he'll light me on fire for acting exactly how he created me to act.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Whatever. Last time I checked, I'm not a Hebrew living in the Middle East in Biblical times. You can pretend you are all you want if it makes you feel better. I'll eat my bacon, thank you.

isa 66:17.

 

[gemcgrew]

probably just a loose interpretation of what sin is.... sin is "probably" things that God does not like, or would 'upset' Him. We do know that God HATES some sins....6-7 of them in particular, per scripture.

Without more clarification, I'm "probably" going to dismiss your statement as a contradiction.

 

[NCHillbilly]

isa 66:17.

Well then, I reckon I'm headed for getting consumed. Carry on with obeying what nonsensical things the ancient book of Hebrew stories commands you to do, and feeling superior to others because you do. I'll be over behind that tree over yonder consuming swine's flesh and awaiting my fiery consumption.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

The Law was also a blessing. I'm sure blessed by it. Without the Law, I would never gain Everlasting Life. God would have never needed to send His Son.

The Law consisted of both blessings and curses, both were forever. Blessings for keeping it we’re eternal, per God, and the curses. Christ, though, took the punishment of failure on Himself, but the blessings for believers are still there, through obedience. That’s why some will be great in heaven, per Jesus, our Lord

 

[Artfuldodger]

Maybe the Cross didn't re-define sin, it just showed us it's purpose. It's curse. It's blessing.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The Law consisted of both blessings and curses, both were forever. Blessings for keeping it we’re eternal, per God, and the curses. Christ, though, took the punishment of failure on Himself, but the blessings for believers are still there, through obedience. That’s why some will be great in heaven, per Jesus, our Lord

Do you think Jesus would have ever been born a Jew if the Jews had kept the Law?
I think when I read Romans 11, I have a whole different view of how it all went down than what you see.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Do you think Jesus would have ever been born a Jew if the Jews had kept the Law?
I think when I read Romans 11, I have a whole different view of how it all went down than what you see.

He was born a Jew because it was prophesied that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah. Jesus didn’t come for the house of Judah, He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL. (Most Christians don’t understand His words, as they are ignorant of the split kingdom. Jer 31:31 mentions these two houses and the covenant that would come to them)