If a virus killed your daughter but not you, could you witness on the power of prayer?

[660griz]

As a deacon I pray over people with all kinds of medical issues and one thing to keep in mind is that going home with jesus is the ultimate healing.

So, are you saying that getting better or death is a win/win? That is hilarious and sad at the same time. Glad you are not a doctor.

 

[WaltL1]

As a deacon I pray over people with all kinds of medical issues and one thing to keep in mind is that going home with jesus is the ultimate healing.

First - I'm assuming when you pray over people with medical issues, you are praying that they beat those medical issues. (Could be a wrong assumption.)
Do you feel/recognize the contradiction of that if you truly believe that going home with Jesus is the ultimate healing?

 

[7 point]

There is two kinds of healing one they beat the sickness and the other they go home with jesus. As the bible says the blind will see the lame will walk ...... healed.

 

[7 point]

So, are you saying that getting better or death is a win/win? That is hilarious and sad at the same time. Glad you are not a doctor.

I take it you haven't read your bible in a while. Of course I want folks to live a full and healthy life but as a believer the alternative is a home with jesus.

 

[ky55]

I take it you haven't read your bible in a while. Of course I want folks to live a full and healthy life but as a believer the alternative is a home with jesus.

Most of us here have spent more time reading our bibles than you could imagine. That’s the reason we are here in the A/A forum.
I want to be young, good-looking, and rich, but I recognize the difference between reality and wishful thinking.

 

[660griz]

I take it you haven't read your bible in a while. Of course I want folks to live a full and healthy life but as a believer the alternative is a home with jesus.

I know a back peddle when I see it. You are correct. I haven't read the bible recently. Have there been updates? Last I heard, the faith of the person praying had no bearing on whether or not the target of the prayer went to be with Jesus.

You know what you said. Just own it. You don't throw in 'ULTIMATE HEALING' and then casually brush that off as, of course folks go to heaven, read your bible.

My question was, do you consider getting better or death, a win/win? Or, do you consider death to be the greatest gift since you can be with Jesus? Do you ever pray for folks to die? Even if they are feeling fine but, you just want to do them a favor.

I am not saying it is a bad thing. I appreciate the conviction. Lots of religious folks talk a good game about heaven and can't wait to be with Jesus but, then do everything in their power to postpone that meeting.

 

[7 point]

I understand where your coming from with the talking a good game and postponing the meeting. Of course I dont pray for people to die .it is a win win for believers I wasnt trying to start a argument just trying to answer the above question from a christain stand point.

 

[bullethead]

I understand where your coming from with the talking a good game and postponing the meeting. Of course I dont pray for people to die .it is a win win for believers I wasnt trying to start a argument just trying to answer the above question from a christain stand point.

The audience in here is comprised mostly of Christians and Former Christians. Most know the rules. Most have read the book. Many of the agnostics and atheists have shown to be very knowledgeable about not only the contents of the bible but the worldly history of how the contents got there. A good apologetic has a way of taking what is in the bible and explaining it in layman's terms and can answer questions without just quoting a verse and using the bible as it's own source. The best Apologetics in here can back up their claims with real world data instead of thinking that an assertive claim is true just because they said it.

 

[ambush80]

And some find no relief at all.

We suffer not from events in out lives, but from our judgements about them."

--Epictitus

 

[ambush80]

yes, across the board most societies (and the world in general) gets less brutal and more civilized over time regardless of what religions they follow. That said at any time incredible politically and religiously motivated violence can flare up but secular societies are no better or worse than religious societies. There are many factors at play, and religion isn't always that big a factor.

I might softly disagree.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html

Yes. There are many, many other factors to consider, but religiosity often plays a role in violence, excluding the Jains and the Amish.

 

[ambush80]

I know a back peddle when I see it. You are correct. I haven't read the bible recently. Have there been updates? Last I heard, the faith of the person praying had no bearing on whether or not the target of the prayer went to be with Jesus.

You know what you said. Just own it. You don't throw in 'ULTIMATE HEALING' and then casually brush that off as, of course folks go to heaven, read your bible.

My question was, do you consider getting better or death, a win/win? Or, do you consider death to be the greatest gift since you can be with Jesus? Do you ever pray for folks to die? Even if they are feeling fine but, you just want to do them a favor.

I am not saying it is a bad thing. I appreciate the conviction. Lots of religious folks talk a good game about heaven and can't wait to be with Jesus but, then do everything in their power to postpone that meeting.

"I've heard prayers for healing go something like "Please heal so and so, but if it is your will, Lord, Please take so and so home to end their suffering".

Win/Win

No matter what happens, the prayer worked. Unless so and so gets even worse and their suffering compounds but they don't die. The answer to that one is "His ways are not our ways" and "It's all part of the beautiful, mysterious plan (even or especially the relentless suffering)."

 

[The Original Rooster]

@7 point , I appreciate what you're trying to do, but you're wasting your time in this particular forum.
Matthew 7:6 & 10:14

 

[WaltL1]

@7 point , I appreciate what you're trying to do, but you're wasting your time in this particular forum.
Matthew 7:6 & 10:14

Wouldnt that depend on what he's trying to accomplish?
If he's just wanting to convey the Christian standpoint then he's being successful -

just trying to answer the above question from a christain stand point.

If he's trying to get us to believe in (G)gods.... then yeah, probably wasting his time.
Only the (G)god is going to accomplish that.

 

[Spotlite]

An interesting subject would be “why prayers go unanswered” or at least “not answered the way I want” - Depending on how you view things from one of the AAA eyes.

Maybe someone will throw it out there for discussion.

Instead of being in the woods today I am laying my Brother to rest after two weeks of rocky road in ICU with liver failure. I think we ran on a total of 20 hours sleep in 14 days.

@bullethead THANK YOU for your message the other day! I really appreciate that

 

[gemcgrew]

Instead of being in the woods today I am laying my Brother to rest after two weeks of rocky road in ICU with liver failure. I think we ran on a total of 20 hours sleep in 14 days.

My condolences to your family. I lost a brother last year on his birthday. I have a good understanding of all the thoughts you are working through.

 

[WaltL1]

An interesting subject would be “why prayers go unanswered” or at least “not answered the way I want” - Depending on how you view things from one of the AAA eyes.

Maybe someone will throw it out there for discussion.

Instead of being in the woods today I am laying my Brother to rest after two weeks of rocky road in ICU with liver failure. I think we ran on a total of 20 hours sleep in 14 days.

@bullethead THANK YOU for your message the other day! I really appreciate that

I never know what to say at times like this, just know my heart goes out to you and your family.

 

[NCHillbilly]

@7 point , I appreciate what you're trying to do, but you're wasting your time in this particular forum.
Matthew 7:6 & 10:14

So, you are saying that we're all pigs?

 

[The Original Rooster]

So, you are saying that we're all pigs?

Not all but there's a few I wonder about.

I posted that because I've had atheist accuse me of not being a very good Christian for not continuing to engage with them after they ridiculed me on here. I pointed out that on the contrary, I was acting very Christian. The Bible says very clearly to not waste your time on those that would ridicule and instead move on to those who genuinely have questions and are interested in answers but just can't make up their mind.
I kind of started seeing this thread heading in that direction from the posts of a few.

 

[bullethead]

Not all but there's a few I wonder about.

I posted that because I've had atheist accuse me of not being a very good Christian for not continuing to engage with them after they ridiculed me on here. I pointed out that on the contrary, I was acting very Christian. The Bible says very clearly to not waste your time on those that would ridicule and instead move on to those who genuinely have questions and are interested in answers but just can't make up their mind.
I kind of started seeing this thread heading in that direction from the posts of a few.

I'm not sure that I know who are the atheists on here and who are agnostics.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Not all but there's a few I wonder about.

I posted that because I've had atheist accuse me of not being a very good Christian for not continuing to engage with them after they ridiculed me on here. I pointed out that on the contrary, I was acting very Christian. The Bible says very clearly to not waste your time on those that would ridicule and instead move on to those who genuinely have questions and are interested in answers but just can't make up their mind.
I kind of started seeing this thread heading in that direction from the posts of a few.

Don't always take as ridicule discussion from someone who doesn't believe the same as you. I have seen a lot of spirited discussions in here, but very little ridicule from either viewpoint.