If God has forgiven us of our sins, does he still punish us for our sins?

[Israel]

Reminds me of this discussion:


http://forum.gon.com/threads/do-you-have-apostles-in-your-church.184657/


and some of this:

I would be hard pressed to not see that American Christians know to be under authority. That the authority rests from the individual's personal relationship with his maker, the bible and the local church with notions of A City on the Hill. These are features of the American Church.

Also the echo's of Thomas Pain's letters and Benjamin Franklin's ideas on politics and liberty were influenced by the pamphleteers, and local ( English) independent church ministers who were very vocal dissenters back in England and dissenters due also to their understanding of Christian values vs inequality in their political society ( in England and all of Europe). They were at odds with the political oligarchy of their times. They lived social and political injustice ---where the church was not always separated from the economic and social life ( politics and justice) of the people . They searched and studied scripture for a remedy--- and instilled into politics and society their remedies.

So what has come of the City on the Hill? Is authority within? So yes it still is. And that is the feature of the American Church.



So a church hopping question is a valid question in the context of American style Christianity. Since authority is within, why the need to hop? Why spawn off more "Christian" sects? And trying to find what the bible says about it all is typically American Christianity-- at the expense of mistrusting anything or anyone foreign--even other Christians.

 

[buckpasser]

I had an old uncle who was a pastor. He said “God bops his children on the head when they do wrong and you’ll know if he does”.

I believe thats true and the Holy Spirit has “chastised” me before. I’ve never shared the following before and some my find it ridiculous, but it’s true.

Years ago I disobeyed a conviction and killed a fourth gobbler in Georgia. I wasnt raised that way. There is no excuse for it and I knew it was wrong before I ever pulled the trigger. I asked forgiveness and was granted it. That fall I rattled in a huge trophy buck. I made a poor shot, called in the dog and went on a trail to nowhere. Before we even determined he was gone a voice inside me reminded me of my wrong doing that spring. Some might say it was my imagination. It was not. I knew God was teaching me a lesson and it was clear as day. Lesson learned, and I sheepishly prayed “Thank you”. I felt punished and sad, but also proud to still be one of God’s redeemed.

 

[StriperAddict]

In answer to the original Q, and late to the discussion, the answer is no.

Do the math:

Sin has only one wage ... death.

Jesus died ... the wage was paid.

If we go around saying God is boppin believers on their head for their stumblings and sins, than the cross is worthless. Tread lightly here, let's not bring in a form of judgement that God doesn't speak in the scriptures. In Christ the punishment was totally taken on and paid, and when recieved, the New Creation man is in full view. He grows to know Christ and to let Him live in and thru, where there is no law against the work of His Spirit within.

Sure, there are earthly consequences to sin, obviously. That's a consequence, not a judgement. God doesn't re-punish, He renews the mind and convinces the child of attitudes and behaviors that do not match up to the child's righteous identity. We admit the thing, we lean and learn from the Comforter, not hardening our heart after sin's deceitfulness, and move on in grace. "See", walking in the Spirit is the norm for God's kids, the fire has been extinguished.

 

[Madman]

We know that God has forgiven us of our sins that would have sent us to eternal death or He11.

You are going to need to flesh this out for me, I'm not sure I am following, If I am I don't agree.

But does he still punish his children for their sins?

The only "punishment" is eternal separation from him. Baptism fixes all sin up to that sacrament, including "original sin". Repentance sets us back in right relationship.

 

[gordon 2]

Yes & no answers. Someone's Holy Spirit notions are off the mark or not properly calibrated and it just might be me. So I pray about it. Nope, I'm right. The others are wrong.

 

[buckpasser]

It’s okay to agree to disagree occasionally. Our opinions matter all of nothing to Gods infinite wisdom anyway. Limiting what God can and can’t do is not something I dabble in. The Jews of Christ’s day were into limiting and predicting a bit and it didn’t pan.

 

[Madman]

It is impossible to discipline a follower, in the days of latter rain, that does not believe that the Church is essential to the economy of one's personal salvation. This is all nebulous and superfluous to the bible alone sects of Christianity. After all... you can jump from worship house to worship house if you don't like the flavors of discipline... and still hold a bible in your hand.

This is painful truth for the Body of Christ, yet truth all the same.

 

[Spineyman]

Forgiveness and Consequences


After receiving divine mercy, some believers expect the Father to miraculously erase the cost of their sinful choices. When that doesn't happen, they may start to wonder, Did God really forgive me? Does He truly love me if I'm still suffering?

January 16, 2015
By Charles F. Stanley

The apostle Paul wrote, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap" (Gal. 6:7). As familiar as we are with this cause-and-effect relationship, there is still some confusion about how it fits with the forgiveness of God.
After receiving divine mercy, some believers expect the Father to miraculously erase the cost of their sinful choices. When that doesn't happen, they may start to wonder, Did God really forgive me? Does He truly love me if I'm still suffering?
So the question in their mind is, Should Christians who have been forgiven by their Creator have to endure the results of their sin? The answer is, "Yes, sometimes." Forgiveness and consequences are not opposite ends of a spectrum. Together, they establish an essential part of the Lord's plan for believers.
Forgiveness is relational. The Father sent Jesus to make a sacrifice on our behalf, and by so doing reconciled us to Himself. By His mercy alone, we can have communion with the Lord.
On the other hand, consequences are circumstantial. The man who drank for many years and developed cirrhosis of the liver knows that his disease has a direct link to his alcohol abuse. The woman who had an affair realizes, deep in her heart, that her ruined marriage was a direct consequence of her sinful choice. The promiscuous person knows his sexually transmitted disease is a result of an immoral lifestyle. God does not often remove consequences like these simply because someone trusts Christ as Savior or confesses sin.
I could go into other illustrations, but perhaps the most compelling one comes from the cross itself. Christ made it clear that the thief dying with him was completely forgiven (Luke 23:39-43). Yet moments later, the man died an excruciating death. His sins had been erased in God's sight, but he suffered the punishment for his crime.
Consequences from sin are not an indication that a person isn't saved or that God is angry with the individual. The Lord frequently allows some painful situations to continue so He can teach us lessons we would otherwise never learn. For example, suffering caused by sin can lead us in quiet desperation to seek God's forgiveness. Very few things motivate us to give Him our undivided attention like being faced with the cost of our wrong choices. When we draw near to the Lord, He reveals how to respond correctly to painful circumstances. Unprecedented spiritual growth will often result.
And even painful consequences do not prevent us from rejoicing in the Lord's gifts of salvation and grace. We all have scars. Their purpose is not to cause us grief as a daily reminder of our sin, but rather to remind us of how gracious and merciful the Lord is. Praise God! He loves us and chooses to work though us despite our past mistakes and wrong choices. People who still bear scars from past sins often become the most effective at leading unbelievers to know Jesus as their Savior.
Our attitude toward negative consequences affects how we relate to our heavenly Father. A negative approach could lead us to become bitter, whereas a positive attitude could bring us to a point of understanding and gratitude for the daily reminders of divine mercy. We can view our scars as monuments to God's grace, or as ongoing punishment. I encourage you to see them as proof of your spiritual healing. If you do, I guarantee that you will change, even when circumstances stay the same. But in that case, your ability to trust God in difficult situations will take on new and exciting dimensions.
Rest assured, sinful decisions have consequences, if not in this life, then in the next. We are blessed, though, because the principle of reaping and sowing works in a positive way as well: "The one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life" (Gal. 6:8). We can sow good seeds that will turn negative situations into positive ones. For instance, I've known couples who started to make wise decisions after suffering the results of poor financial choices. Over time, they experienced the benefit of their right actions.
Don't spend the bulk of your time trying to convince God to remove painful consequences. Try praising Him instead. In His wisdom, the Lord allows these reminders to keep you away from further sin and its effects. As you humble yourself before Him, ask the Father to give you the ability and courage to walk away from sin and toward His almighty arms. Begin "sowing" to please the Spirit rather than your flesh. God may never change your circumstances, but He will renew your strength and change your life.
https://www.intouch.org/Read/forgiveness-and-consequences

 

[gemcgrew]

Anything less than ultimate punishment... is mercy.