In Matthew 3:12 who or what is the “chaff”?

[Artfuldodger]

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

 

[Artfuldodger]

I've read all the traditional explanations but something seems to be missing or different if we also consider Matthew 3:11
Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I just discovered this link belowand I am pondering it as that was kind of what I thought when I read the passage with just my explanation. I'm just not sure it it was the Holy Spirit that lead me to this concerning the chaff;

In Mat 3:12 John continues his thinking, "He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

From the link;
"John hasn't suddenly shifted from describing these two systems, to then describing the judgement. He is still on the same point.

The chaff represents the old life of the believer, the flesh that is being purified by the Baptism of fire. This baptism of fire is given by Jesus Himself and begins upon salvation, continuing through the life of the believer and concludes at death when we finally leave the shell of this sinful body."

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....he-chaff-and-how-does-it-differ-from-the-whea

 

[Artfuldodger]

I do realize what wheat and chaff usually mean in the Bible. Thus my dilemma. But still John was talking about baptism, why would he switch to the Judgement? What is Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire?

"The flesh, or "chaff" of my formal life will perish still smoking from the eternal flames of His presence and love."

Has chaff ever been used to mean flesh or sin?

 

[Artfuldodger]

The fan in Christ's hand? It may be premised that the work is twofold. First, it includes a separation of persons.
Secondly, it implies a separation of persons from their corruptions.

But in this passage, it's about baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. Isn't it about the individual, the separation of sin from the person?

Fire destroys but it also cleanses. I don't think we can just see fire as destruction. I mean not even in a non-scriptural sense. Fire can sterilize and purify things. It's the same as water, it can cleanse and destroy.

 

[gordon 2]

Those whom God gave to Jesus are both His and to the world initially. God judges these through Jesus. It is His judgment that they are to made righteous and freed from the grip of the world. Through the Christian baptism man is cleansed and freed.

28Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe. 29For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I see it in a simplistic way.... only that he wants to convey that harvest time is near..... and judgement

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

1 Corinthians 3

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I see it in a simplistic way.... only that he wants to convey that harvest time is near..... and judgement

So you think verse 11 is about our individual Baptism, but verse 12 suddenly switches to a future judgement with fire?

The winnowing fork in his hand in verse 12 is about separating the two groups even though verse 11 was about baptism?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I've also read where a commentator though the winnowing fork, fan, shovel was the "Romans."

 

[BanjoPicker]

Art this is what the chaff is, grain was threshed in the open air, being trampled under the feet of oxen (Dt. 25:4), or by means of instruments (Isa. 28:27, note). To separate the grain from the hulls and straw a fan or wooden pitchfork was used. As straw was thrown toward the wind, the chaff blew away and the grain fell to the ground. The grain was sometimes sifted after the winnowing (Lk. 22:31). The chaff then was burned and the grain stored. This is used to picture judgment several times (Job 21:17-20; Ps. 1:4; Isa. 29:5; 41:16; Dan. 2). Art your right on the judgment part !