gordon 2
Senior Member
"and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned. I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you..."
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Today being a new day, I would invite earnest comments on the verse above, from the will towards a genuine wholesome fellowship. It is up to you. I shall start.
First thing I learn from the verse is that I live in a world where the prince of it "has been condemned" by the appearance of the Messiah. It seems to suggest to me that what is wrong or tricked in this world is made plain by Jesus and his friends and that I can have a finer judgement of everything that is not right much better that had I lived before Jesus was born or known to me.
Second, Godly knowledge is progressive and due perhaps because we live in a world were the prince of it is condemned. We cannot bear to hear "it"... what God has much to tell us about himself and ourselves... or all of it at once, because although condemned the prince of this world still had great influence in our make up of how to interact with the world and our God.
And not only do we "grow" in godly knowledge if we continue in fellowship, but the world grows in godly knowledge through the centuries. It is cumulative. The Holy Spirit will/is guiding Christians into all truth individually and corporately-- in a cumulative fashion and it is like this through the individual's lifespan, but also it is cumulative in the life span of Christianity.
Freezing glass dropped into boiling water will break the glass. Perhaps we are as freezing glass due what we cleave to which is of the world-- even as saints! Seems God might think it better to warm us up before we fellowship into His light.
It might have been difficult for the people Jesus was addressing in this verse to understand that He would need to be sacrificed on the cross as a criminal, but it still is to some of us who believe today.
3ed point. The Holy Spirit speaks and declares " what is to come" and "what is Mine" and declares it to the friends of God and into the world. I can only assume due my personal experience that the Holy Spirit does this due to personal revelations, that is speaking to and through individual friends who have a common respect for the spirit of truth regards Jesus and God as best mortal men and women can express, but also the spirit declares through the church through the centuries and its ongoing teaching ministries, ( which includes bible study.)
4. If I somehow put all these ideas together and hope that at least more than 50% of them are of the truth in a Godly fashion in whole or in part, I cannot get discouraged that the Church sometimes ( even with regularity) might regress in practices or jump ahead of my understanding of things Godly. Or a good part of my faith must also be in relative hope that the Holy Spirit has spoken through the Church in the past, due its ministries and due the lives of rugged individuals unflinching in the understanding that even though not perfect, through the centuries the Holy Spirit " will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you"... within the Church.
5. Where individual congregations disagree on "what is to come" and on the differing manners on how to "hear" what the Holy Spirit hears can perhaps all be overcome by a reflection on what is God's purpose in the Messiah and Jesus stated purpose in the Holy Spirit. The reconciliation and fellowship in Him for us through our Lord Jesus should also be a reconciliation that through the Church, though imperfect and to the point of being at odds sometimes historically, that the Spirit has spoken and will speak again what He hears and will declare to us what is to come and that in the future He will declare what we "cannot yet bear to hear" today.
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Today being a new day, I would invite earnest comments on the verse above, from the will towards a genuine wholesome fellowship. It is up to you. I shall start.
First thing I learn from the verse is that I live in a world where the prince of it "has been condemned" by the appearance of the Messiah. It seems to suggest to me that what is wrong or tricked in this world is made plain by Jesus and his friends and that I can have a finer judgement of everything that is not right much better that had I lived before Jesus was born or known to me.
Second, Godly knowledge is progressive and due perhaps because we live in a world were the prince of it is condemned. We cannot bear to hear "it"... what God has much to tell us about himself and ourselves... or all of it at once, because although condemned the prince of this world still had great influence in our make up of how to interact with the world and our God.
And not only do we "grow" in godly knowledge if we continue in fellowship, but the world grows in godly knowledge through the centuries. It is cumulative. The Holy Spirit will/is guiding Christians into all truth individually and corporately-- in a cumulative fashion and it is like this through the individual's lifespan, but also it is cumulative in the life span of Christianity.
Freezing glass dropped into boiling water will break the glass. Perhaps we are as freezing glass due what we cleave to which is of the world-- even as saints! Seems God might think it better to warm us up before we fellowship into His light.
It might have been difficult for the people Jesus was addressing in this verse to understand that He would need to be sacrificed on the cross as a criminal, but it still is to some of us who believe today.
3ed point. The Holy Spirit speaks and declares " what is to come" and "what is Mine" and declares it to the friends of God and into the world. I can only assume due my personal experience that the Holy Spirit does this due to personal revelations, that is speaking to and through individual friends who have a common respect for the spirit of truth regards Jesus and God as best mortal men and women can express, but also the spirit declares through the church through the centuries and its ongoing teaching ministries, ( which includes bible study.)
4. If I somehow put all these ideas together and hope that at least more than 50% of them are of the truth in a Godly fashion in whole or in part, I cannot get discouraged that the Church sometimes ( even with regularity) might regress in practices or jump ahead of my understanding of things Godly. Or a good part of my faith must also be in relative hope that the Holy Spirit has spoken through the Church in the past, due its ministries and due the lives of rugged individuals unflinching in the understanding that even though not perfect, through the centuries the Holy Spirit " will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you"... within the Church.
5. Where individual congregations disagree on "what is to come" and on the differing manners on how to "hear" what the Holy Spirit hears can perhaps all be overcome by a reflection on what is God's purpose in the Messiah and Jesus stated purpose in the Holy Spirit. The reconciliation and fellowship in Him for us through our Lord Jesus should also be a reconciliation that through the Church, though imperfect and to the point of being at odds sometimes historically, that the Spirit has spoken and will speak again what He hears and will declare to us what is to come and that in the future He will declare what we "cannot yet bear to hear" today.
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