Jehovah Witnesses

[kmh1031]

we simply study the bible, and carry out the command of Jesus, and his disciples..
Matt 24:14
Matt 28:19-20
The message of Gods kingdom, was the foremost in Jesus ministry...and is for us also.
IF we call on you, and you are not interested....simply let us know, and we will move on..

 

[j_seph]

You mentioned the Gay ministers(which I do not agree with them either), how do JW react to the Gays?
Another interesting thing is in your Genesis 2:16 it says Jehovah God in KJV it says Lord God. To me by saying Lord God is like saying Mr. Smith as an example to show respect. If my understanding is correct, JW view is Jehovah is Gods name which to me if that is the case is less respect. I also came across this as well.

What does the name Jehovah stand for?
Jehovah. Another name for God; an approximation of the holiest name of God in Hebrew (the name was held so sacred that it was never written or spoken, and scholars are not sure exactly how it should be pronounced). It means “I am that I am,” or “I am the one who is.”

 

[kmh1031]

Good questions, and comments and I appreciate this flavor of conversation.

Regarding the respectful use of his name, nowhere in the Bible does Jehovah prohibit the respectful use of his name.

In fact, the Scriptures reveal that the divine name was freely used by God’s servants.
So much so that they included it in the names they gave their children, such as Elijah, which means “My God Is Jehovah,” and Zechariah, which means “Jehovah Has Remembered.” And they did not hesitate to use God’s name in daily conversations, as indicated at Ruth 2:4.

Many today use Gods name in a way, unknowingly when the say, “Hallelujah” which means, praise ye Jehovah, frequently rendered "Praise ye the LORD (lord in capitols frequently used incorrectly instead of Gods name)

The fact that he put his person name over 6800 times in the original writings, shows he wants us to know him, call him by name, and learn his qualities and attributes. How could one have a personal relationship with someone without learning their name?

As I said before, Jesus before his death said; “I have made your name known”.

God wants us to use his name. We are encouraged to “give thanks to Jehovah, call on his name.” at Psalm 105:1 God, even takes a favorable note of those “meditating on his name.” Malachi 3:16.

Those calling on his name will be saved…as indicated in Proverbs…
“May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

Regarding Gays, JWs obviously take the bible viewpoint that this lifestyle is in opposition to gods laws and commands, from the very beginning.

Our Creator established rules governing marriage long before governments began regulating the institution. The opening book of the Bible tells us: “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” ( Gen 2;24)

The Hebrew word “wife,” denotes one who is a female human being.” Jesus confirmed that those yoked together in marriage should be “male and female.” Matt 19:4.

With all of this being said, we treat all with respect, including gays, but do not approve of this lifestyle as it is unapproved by god, in many scriptures.
However it is possible for them to come to an accurate understanding of bible truths, and gods viewpoint and change from this lifestyle. Notice this scripture, 1 Cor 6: 9-11.

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters,h adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts,j men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11


11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean you have been sanctified you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

SO it says some of you WERE, means they changed..after learning the accurate truth of the bible. So, it they are interested in learning about God, his moral code, and how then can be approved, we are all for it, but a lifestyle change would be required.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Thanks for the comments, in response, and suggestion to talk to other religions.

And yes we firmly believe in Salvation: John 17:3...That is a great salvation scripture and helps us see we need to take in knowledge of Jesus AND the one who sent him, Jehovah God.

And to your suggestion about checking out other religions, actually my family and I used to be Baptist, and my wife's family Methodist.

For years we went to church, listened, and Christians do...

yet over time, we were frustrated, fed up, with all the incorrectness we saw
Gay ministers, celebration of Pagan Holidays, politics in the pulpit...as we know that is not from the bible, and not following the teachings, commands of Jesus and God.
Thus we started looking....
we found out, that

None of the early Christians were involved in politics, celebrated any of the holidays at the time...and they knew the condition of the dead that it is not one of torment...
Note Mary's comment to Jesus about Lazarus:
Lord I know he will rise on the LAST day...(so he was in the grave, not someplace else) Jesus told her he was "sleeping" after 4 days in the grave...

None of the ministers, pastors were able to answer,
what is the condition of the dead (accurately from he bible)
Why do bad things happen to good people
IF god is in charge of this world, why doesn't he do something?
Why so much crime and violence?

Through our study of the bible we learned the answers to these questions and more...
We also learned that once one is dead, they are forgiven of their sins, not tormented...Romans 6:7. for those who have died have been acquitted of their sins...

Also, we learned that their is a hope for the meek, and the earth, read for example Ps 37...who are these people, and if all go to heaven and ****...who are the meek that inherit the earth?

Tons more...and thank you for your concern and comments....

First and foremost, NONE, I repeat NONE, of that has anything to do with salvation.
Not one iota.

Secondly I find it hard to find credible what you state above about preachers not being able to answer your questions. Every preacher I know and most informed atheist can tell you what the Bible states. It appears to me it’s more likely you simply didn’t like the answers and shopped around until you found answers that agreed with your reality. Just keep in mind, if your assessment of reality was initially Ill-informed, you are just as lost as ever, for all you did was find someone to reinforce your mistake.

 

[kmh1031]

No, the answers were not comforting, or bible based.
"God needed another angel" (when asked 2 preachers over the Death of a friends child)
Gods ways are mysterious, and we dont know the works of God"
They did not know WHY we die.
They did not know why god allows suffering....and it is NOT to test us.

SO we went looking...
Many today find answers they want in church as it fits their lifestyle, without making major changes...
Therefore their “ears are tickled” to have attendance at many churches without having to conform to the bibles standards.

Of course in the beginning, we were doubting "Thomas's" if you will when we were first approached by JW's.
But yet every question was answered from the Bible from my previous posts and many more, so your response to our actions is quite the opposite.
Salvation?

• Matt 24:13 shows the one who endures to the end will be saved.
• John 17:3 shows taking in Knowledge of Jesus and The one who sent him means everlasting life and we do that daily.

Through Jesus, God revealed the full scope of the meaning of salvation. It includes release from the rulership of sin, from bondage to false religion, from the world under Satan’s control, from the fear of man, and even from the fear of death. You can review at John 17:16; Romans 8:2; Colossians 1:13; Revelation 18:2, 4

Ultimately, for God’s faithful servants, salvation by God means not only deliverance from oppression and distress but also the opportunity to have everlasting life, John 6:40; 17:3
Jesus taught that for a “little flock,” salvation means their being resurrected to heavenly life to share with Christ in Kingdom rule, Luke 12:32

For the rest of mankind, salvation means a restoration to the perfect life and relationship with God that Adam and Eve enjoyed in the garden of Eden before they sinned. And for reference you can view Acts 3:21; Ephesians 1:10
There are over 100 prophesies in the bible about the earth being restored to a paradise and faithful humans living upon it in perfect conditions.
Everlasting life under such paradisiac conditions was God’s original purpose for mankind, and it has not changed. Genesis 1:28; Mark 10:30

If you are comfortable with your belief, and your views and religion are bible based, then wonderful, I am happy for you.

However Jesus before his death, due to "oppressive wolves" entering the Christian congregation, laid out 7-8 identifying traits of the TRUE religion for his future followers. It works down to this day, and it helped us.

I am sure based on your study of the bible you know and have read these…and have found or are searching for it.

It is the litmus test we all must do to make sure we have the true religion. Don’t take my word for it, thousands of religions and sects today…..how do we know we have the right one?
Jesus indicated in Matt 7, that some would think they have it..but don’t… get away from me he said...

Matt 7:13-14 Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

It is a roadmap that Jesus left all of his in the scriptures to help us have salvation, and make sure we are on the road to life by these identifying marks of the True Religion..

 

[Artfuldodger]

Back to salvation, Matt 24:13 shows the one who endures to the end will be saved. From what?

Is this the physical salvation from the powers of Satan? Then we have "those calling on His name will be saved." What salvation is that? Salvation from eternal death?

I can see many who do not receive salvation, die when they die so to speak. I do see different types of salvation in Scripture. Sometimes it appears to be a physical salvation from Satan, or even God's wrath such as a battle or destruction of the city. Other times it appears to be a spiritual salvation from eternal death.

Then what do we gain from this salvation if physical? A physical life on on a Restored Earth or spiritual life in a far away Heaven. Scripture talks of two Kingdoms, one in Heaven and one to come on the earth as it is in Heaven.

Now the big question; how important is it for us to know the meaning of salvation? Can't we just know we want salvation and know that's good enough? The Kingdom? Can't we just know we want in it even if we don't know where it will be? Perhaps it will be on the earth(physical heaven) or in the original Heaven(spiritual heaven). Can't we just know we want to go there and not have to believe exactly every detail and aspect of the Kingdom?

 

[kmh1031]

And to your point, what I previously said DOES have everything and more to do with our salvation..
IF we are worshiping god in ways that is unapproved, or via traditions, we will not get life.
God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” John 4:24.

“This people honor me, with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.” Mark 7:6, 7

If people claiming to worship God teach their own ideas instead of what the Bible teaches, their worship is in vain. It is not acceptable to God.
condoning pagan holidays, Politics, war, immorality and more...are not approved, and will not result in salvation..

God does have a people today...and in Revelation 18:4 he warns them....

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Can't we just be Spiritual? If Jesus came and did the "physical" part for us and "it is finished," then why do we dwell on what "we" must do?

Why not just try to be more spiritual? Knowing that there is nothing physical we can do anyway to gain salvation.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Good questions, and comments and I appreciate this flavor of conversation.

Regarding the respectful use of his name, nowhere in the Bible does Jehovah prohibit the respectful use of his name.

In fact, the Scriptures reveal that the divine name was freely used by God’s servants.
So much so that they included it in the names they gave their children, such as Elijah, which means “My God Is Jehovah,” and Zechariah, which means “Jehovah Has Remembered.” And they did not hesitate to use God’s name in daily conversations, as indicated at Ruth 2:4.

Many today use Gods name in a way, unknowingly when the say, “Hallelujah” which means, praise ye Jehovah, frequently rendered "Praise ye the LORD (lord in capitols frequently used incorrectly instead of Gods name)

The fact that he put his person name over 6800 times in the original writings, shows he wants us to know him, call him by name, and learn his qualities and attributes. How could one have a personal relationship with someone without learning their name?

As I said before, Jesus before his death said; “I have made your name known”.

God wants us to use his name. We are encouraged to “give thanks to Jehovah, call on his name.” at Psalm 105:1 God, even takes a favorable note of those “meditating on his name.” Malachi 3:16.

Those calling on his name will be saved…as indicated in Proverbs…
“May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

Regarding Gays, JWs obviously take the bible viewpoint that this lifestyle is in opposition to gods laws and commands, from the very beginning.

Our Creator established rules governing marriage long before governments began regulating the institution. The opening book of the Bible tells us: “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” ( Gen 2;24)

The Hebrew word “wife,” denotes one who is a female human being.” Jesus confirmed that those yoked together in marriage should be “male and female.” Matt 19:4.

With all of this being said, we treat all with respect, including gays, but do not approve of this lifestyle as it is unapproved by god, in many scriptures.
However it is possible for them to come to an accurate understanding of bible truths, and gods viewpoint and change from this lifestyle. Notice this scripture, 1 Cor 6: 9-11.

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters,h adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts,j men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11


11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean you have been sanctified you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

SO it says some of you WERE, means they changed..after learning the accurate truth of the bible. So, it they are interested in learning about God, his moral code, and how then can be approved, we are all for it, but a lifestyle change would be required.

I would agree that Jesus did teach his Father's Kingdom utmost. Everything was about his Father and our Father, his God and our God. In Paul's sin list of who would not enter this Kingdom that Jesus taught? Didn't he also say this?

1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Artfuldodger]

And to your point, what I previously said DOES have everything and more to do with our salvation..
IF we are worshiping god in ways that is unapproved, or via traditions, we will not get life.
God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” John 4:24.

“This people honor me, with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.” Mark 7:6, 7

If people claiming to worship God teach their own ideas instead of what the Bible teaches, their worship is in vain. It is not acceptable to God.
condoning pagan holidays, Politics, war, immorality and more...are not approved, and will not result in salvation..

God does have a people today...and in Revelation 18:4 he warns them....

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

I too went seeking. I no longer believe in the Trinity as most trinitarians, not that I understand it any better than they do. I do not believe in eternal torment but everlasting death. I too see the different Kindom's and salvations. I never received all the answers I was looking for.

I believe you as me, seeked and found your answers with the JW's. In doing so, you took away the salvation of people like me. You added back to salvation requirements that Jesus died for. You did find answers but within those answers came stipulations. You gained a lot more knowledge than you actually needed.

 

[kmh1031]

Art, related to your earlier post this morning...

It is a Physical and Spiritual salvation….Physical in the sense that IF we gain accurate knowledge John 17:3, we will gain everlasting life..and be part of Gods kingdom which was the focal point of Jesus ministry Matt 6:33, Matthew 24:14 and many more.

The kingdom that Jesus actually spoke about and was the focal part of his ministry is an actual kingdom, and it will bring to ruin all earthly governments: Dan 2:44.

But it will also bring many blessings; Rev 21:3-4, death and mourning be no more. He gave a glimpse of the benefits as the kingdom while on earth; raised the dead, cured the blind, lame and more. Much better rulers than we have today.

All of this is done via Armageddon, which is not a WW3 or catastrophic event caused by Man.
But is is “Gods war against the world governments, false religion, and all those associated with these. Thus the warning at Revelation to “get out of her my people”.

Spiritual in the sense that we come to an accurate knowledge of the bible, its teachings and it will save us from the many false religious teachings today,:
condition of the dead,
heaven and ****,
belief that the earth will be destroyed,
once saved always saved
why god permits wickedness,
who is in control of this world, and many more.

Matt 24:13 shows endures to the end will be saved….But just believing is not enough…
James 2:19
You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.

So it is not just enough to read and believe…we must take action, and “exercise our faith”…and more.

To gain salvation, you must exercise faith in Jesus and demonstrate that faith by obeying his commands as shown at Acts 4:10, 12 and Romans 10:9, 10 and also Hebrews 5:9.

The Bible shows that you must have works, or acts of obedience, to prove that your faith is alive James 2:24, 26,

Regarding being saved;
The bible clearly shows the majority will not be saved…2 Thessalonians 1:9. When Jesus was asked, “Are those being saved few?” he replied: “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.”—Luke 13:23, 24.

Saved from the end of this old system of things when Jesus ushers in his Kingdom…we all have prayed for…in the lords prayer; “your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven”…

 

[Artfuldodger]

Art, related to your earlier post this morning...

It is a Physical and Spiritual salvation….Physical in the sense that IF we gain accurate knowledge John 17:3, we will gain everlasting life..and be part of Gods kingdom which was the focal point of Jesus ministry Matt 6:33, Matthew 24:14 and many more.

The kingdom that Jesus actually spoke about and was the focal part of his ministry is an actual kingdom, and it will bring to ruin all earthly governments: Dan 2:44.

But it will also bring many blessings; Rev 21:3-4, death and mourning be no more. He gave a glimpse of the benefits as the kingdom while on earth; raised the dead, cured the blind, lame and more. Much better rulers than we have today.

All of this is done via Armageddon, which is not a WW3 or catastrophic event caused by Man.
But is is “Gods war against the world governments, false religion, and all those associated with these. Thus the warning at Revelation to “get out of her my people”.

Spiritual in the sense that we come to an accurate knowledge of the bible, its teachings and it will save us from the many false religious teachings today,:
condition of the dead,
heaven and ****,
belief that the earth will be destroyed,
once saved always saved
why god permits wickedness,
who is in control of this world, and many more.

Matt 24:13 shows endures to the end will be saved….But just believing is not enough…
James 2:19
You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.

So it is not just enough to read and believe…we must take action, and “exercise our faith”…and more.

To gain salvation, you must exercise faith in Jesus and demonstrate that faith by obeying his commands as shown at Acts 4:10, 12 and Romans 10:9, 10 and also Hebrews 5:9.

The Bible shows that you must have works, or acts of obedience, to prove that your faith is alive James 2:24, 26,

Regarding being saved;
The bible clearly shows the majority will not be saved…2 Thessalonians 1:9. When Jesus was asked, “Are those being saved few?” he replied: “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.”—Luke 13:23, 24.

Saved from the end of this old system of things when Jesus ushers in his Kingdom…we all have prayed for…in the lords prayer; “your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven”…

Then those that are saved are saved from what? Eternal death? Satan's powers? The destruction of Jerusalem?

Those few than are saved, gain what? Eternal life? A physical life without Satan? Spiritual life in Heaven? Physical life on a restored earth?

Then to think one has to have the knowledge or has to gain this knowledge of such a complex religion, just to qualify?

That one must understand the complexity just as I do or one isn't included in "the few."

So we've got within the Unity of God, the Trinity, Oneness, eternal sonship, incarnational sonship, adoptive sonship, and whatever anyone else can interpret to be true.
You are saying that within all of those beliefs, only the few that believe Jesus is Michael incarnate are included?

If all of the above believe Jesus died for their sins and that Jesus is the son of God, why does it matter so much exactly who Jesus is beyond the son of God? When God bestowed sonship to you, were you a trinitarian or a Michael incarnated as Jesus believer?

What is that belief actually called in relation to sonship? In that Michael becomes Jesus? Is that incarnational sonship or adoptive sonship?

 

[kmh1031]

Then those that are saved are saved from what? Eternal death? Satan's powers? The destruction of Jerusalem?
The destruction of that is to come upon the earth, as foretold in the bible.

Armageddon is the symbolic place of “the war of the great day of God the Almighty,” his war against the wicked. Revelation 16:14, 16

Those few than are saved, gain what? Eternal life?

Some go to heaven as indicated in Revelation, the majority is the great crowd.

Restored to perfect health here on earth without death, sickness, crime, unjust governments, etc. As foretold in Isa, Ps 37, and Rev 21:3-4 to name a few. Many, many more and it is the Kingdom Jesus taught about and its benefits.

Satan and his demons will be abyssed for 1,000 years, as evidenced again in Revelation. False religion and the worldly govts done away with (Dan 2:44) and Gods righteous rule will begin, JUST like it was supposed to in the Garden of Eden.
Gods purpose for the earth and mankind has not changed.

This also is the day (over 1,000 years) of resurrection of all the dead, as indicated in the scriptures, and Mary eluded to when referring to Lazarus being raised up...on the "last day"(no he was not in heaven or ****, simply the grave) she knew the condition of the dead, and the future.

A physical life without Satan? Spiritual life in Heaven? Physical life on a restored earth? Yes,

Then to think one has to have the knowledge or has to gain this knowledge of such a complex religion, just to qualify?

The truth is not complex...
Jesus said to a group of listeners at John 8:32: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” What truth is that?


Also, Acts 13:48 says, When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of God, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers.

The bible truths are not hard to understand once the mask is taken off regarding false teaching.
Actually it is very simple, that is why, you will know the truth, and it will set you free as regards to
the condition of the dead
why we grow old and die
etc, etc

 

[Artfuldodger]

Satan and his demons will be abyssed for 1,000 years, as evidenced again in Revelation. False religion and the worldly govts done away with (Dan 2:44) and Gods righteous rule will begin, JUST like it was supposed to in the Garden of Eden.
Gods purpose for the earth and mankind has not changed.

This also is the day (over 1,000 years) of resurrection of all the dead, as indicated in the scriptures, and Mary eluded to when referring to Lazarus being raised up...on the "last day"(no he was not in heaven or ****, simply the grave) she knew the condition of the dead, and the future.
c

"Resurrection of all the dead?"

From JW.org;
20 Does this mean that everyone who has died will be resurrected? No. Jesus said that some people would not be brought back to life.

25 Very soon, Jehovah will free all humans from death, and death will be gone forever!

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/there-will-be-a-resurrection/

If only a few gain eternal life, then how can all be resurrected? How can death be done away with if people will stay dead?

 

[j_seph]

I do not believe in eternal torment but everlasting death.

So are you saying that the same Jesus that you took in knowledge from as kmh stated in John 17:3 that what the same Jesus that is in Matthew was telling a lie here?
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
As well
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[kmh1031]

That is true, and from your study of the bible, we know those executed by Gods Hands; the flood, those of Sodom and Gomorrah, Judas, and others will not be brought back.
God has that knowledge not us...
However in the new earth/world, people will not die, ....from the causes of sin that we deal with today...
Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
But Revelation shows that at the end of the 1,000 satan and his demons will be let out for a little while....and those that pass the final test will receive immortality.

 

[Artfuldodger]

So are you saying that the same Jesus that you took in knowledge from as kmh stated in John 17:3 that what the same Jesus that is in Matthew was telling a lie here?
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
As well
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

 

[kmh1031]

Regarding Matt 25:41
The question comes up: Is “the eternal fire” Jesus warned of literal or symbolic?
Note that “the eternal fire” mentioned by Jesus and recorded at Matthew 25:41 was prepared “for the devil and his angels.”

Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures?

Obviously not, as you remember the fiery furnace with the 3 Hebrews and the Angel….did not bother them..
So was Jesus using the term “fire” symbolically?

Certainly “the sheep” and “the goats” mentioned in the same discourse are not literal; they are word pictures that represent two types of people. This is found at Matthew 25:32, 33
The eternal fire that Jesus spoke of completely burns up the wicked in a figurative sense.
Everlasting punishment, is simply death.
The bible does not preach a ****, nor did Jesus or God.
The soul that is sinning it itself shall die..Ex 18:4.
Romans 6:7 all those who have died have been acquitted of their sins
ECC 9: 5-9, condition of dead.
Ps 146:3-4 all return to dust.

In Eden, did God say Adam would die? or go to a fiery torment? IF these was such a thing, would it not be more cruel to not tell Adam that was his destiny if he sinned?

**** translated into many bibles is incorrect, it is simply mankind common grave, Sheol, or Hades.

Did you know good men were in **** (the grave) Jacob and Job expected to go there.
David, Moses, Abraham and other faithful men did not go to heaven? what was their hope?

Jeremiah 7:31, burning of people, via fire is something detestable to God...and not even he had thought of it...

" They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart."

 

[Artfuldodger]

That is true, and from your study of the bible, we know those executed by Gods Hands; the flood, those of Sodom and Gomorrah, Judas, and others will not be brought back.
God has that knowledge not us...
However in the new earth/world, people will not die, ....from the causes of sin that we deal with today...
Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
But Revelation shows that at the end of the 1,000 satan and his demons will be let out for a little while....and those that pass the final test will receive immortality.

I"m not sure you cleared up what I posted in #55 what I read from JW.org?

20 Does this mean that everyone who has died will be resurrected? No. Jesus said that some people would not be brought back to life.

25 Very soon, Jehovah will free all humans from death, and death will be gone forever!

Who resurrects, all or the few? If all humans are free from death won't everyone have to be resurrected? If death will be gone forever, won't everyone get to live?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Regarding Matt 25:41
The question comes up: Is “the eternal fire” Jesus warned of literal or symbolic?
Note that “the eternal fire” mentioned by Jesus and recorded at Matthew 25:41 was prepared “for the devil and his angels.”

Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures?

Obviously not, as you remember the fiery furnace with the 3 Hebrews and the Angel….did not bother them..
So was Jesus using the term “fire” symbolically?

Certainly “the sheep” and “the goats” mentioned in the same discourse are not literal; they are word pictures that represent two types of people. This is found at Matthew 25:32, 33
The eternal fire that Jesus spoke of completely burns up the wicked in a figurative sense.
Everlasting punishment, is simply death.
The bible does not preach a ****, nor did Jesus or God.
The soul that is sinning it itself shall die..Ex 18:4.
Romans 6:7 all those who have died have been acquitted of their sins
ECC 9: 5-9, condition of dead.
Ps 146:3-4 all return to dust.

In Eden, did God say Adam would die? or go to a fiery torment? IF these was such a thing, would it not be more cruel to not tell Adam that was his destiny if he sinned?

**** translated into many bibles is incorrect, it is simply mankind common grave, Sheol, or Hades.

Did you know good men were in **** (the grave) Jacob and Job expected to go there.
David, Moses, Abraham and other faithful men did not go to heaven? what was their hope?

Jeremiah 7:31, burning of people, via fire is something detestable to God...and not even he had thought of it...

" They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart."

Hey, we agree on something. I'll bet we both agree Jesus is the son of God as well.

But suppose a brother sees everlasting life as an alternative to everlasting torment instead of everlasting death. Does that simple belief take away his everlasting life?