Jesus 101- Church Attendance is Not a Priority

I know a few dead people that would still be alive if they had laid off the church for awhile last year. And quite a few more that wouldn't owe tens of thousands in medical bills. Ain't no Jesus in that.
I'm in disagreement with you on that Brother. No one made them go to Church. My opinion at the time and to this day is the Government has no business closing churches. My Church did close the doors and went online but it was a decision made by our pastor.. My knee-jerk reaction was to be against it, until I spoke to him. His reasoning was simple and out of love. We have a good many older people and he said he couldn't live with himself if something happened to one of them. I was wrong in my knee-jerk opinion, and I'll admit it. Today, we know a whole lot more about the virus and things are different. Some of the older people in our church did die from Covid, but it wasn't contracted at church as it was closed. Additionally, at this point people have all made their personal decisions on what they will and won't do and where they will and won't go, but I stand by that it's always been a personal decision.
 
Not sure what you mean but ok then.
Us people in the church are real quick to get on a high horse and look down on even others in the church and other Christians. I voted for the Constitution Party Candidate for President on Trumps first run. Because of his comments about grabbing women's privates, I couldn't, in good conscience vote for him. I had people in the church that told me I needed to find another church. I'd been going there 20 years.
 

RoosterTodd

Sinister Operative
Us people in the church are real quick to get on a high horse and look down on even others in the church and other Christians.
Yep, me too. Guilty as charged. Been there and done it myself. I TRY to understand a person's intentions instead of just words alone because words and actions can be misinterpreted.
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I'm in disagreement with you on that Brother. No one made them go to Church. My opinion at the time and to this day is the Government has no business closing churches. My Church did close the doors and went online but it was a decision made by our pastor.. My knee-jerk reaction was to be against it, until I spoke to him. His reasoning was simple and out of love. We have a good many older people and he said he couldn't live with himself if something happened to one of them. I was wrong in my knee-jerk opinion, and I'll admit it. Today, we know a whole lot more about the virus and things are different. Some of the older people in our church did die from Covid, but it wasn't contracted at church as it was closed. Additionally, at this point people have all made their personal decisions on what they will and won't do and where they will and won't go, but I stand by that it's always been a personal decision.
I agree 100% that the government has absolutely no business shutting down churches. Never said that I did. My point is that having some common sense and missing a couple Sundays of church is better than missing potentially several decades of it (not to mention what your family has to go through,) because you're stubborn and dead. I don't think Jesus would mind at all.
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I read you’re posts every now and then and all you seem to do is try to make the word of God fit what you like in life. Drinking and now not going to church.
Jesus drunk and didn't go to church. If you don't believe it says in the Bible that Jesus drunk alcohol, then you are guilty of what you accuse others of doing.
 
I agree 100% that the government has absolutely no business shutting down churches. Never said that I did. My point is that having some common sense and missing a couple Sundays of church is better than missing potentially several decades of it (not to mention what your family has to go through,) because you're stubborn and dead. I don't think Jesus would mind at all.
Agreed. Seems like a lot of people got their skivies in a wad over their church closing ,and it's still there. I realized that I was wrong, and that it was done out of love. Apparently others can't see actions out of love for their strict adherence to scripture. Where have I heard that before? Hmmmmmm......something about some Pharisees upset about Jesus healing on the Sabbath or something like that......maybe.

Note to @Madman: I understand the purpose in you guys keeping the doors open with regards to the importance of the sacraments. I had never even considered that aspects, but that's a HUGE deal for you now that I think about it.
 

Israel

Senior Member
The body needs to meet as one and the church needs to be open for them to do that.
I am not in your denomination and have no say so in what is open and what is not that is your responsibility as a leader in your particular denomination.
Amen to the first sentence.

Does the second have any power over it to negate/modify/limit by any encroachment? Or even distort by expansion?

I don't see that it does.

All authority in the Church belongs to Jesus Christ regardless of any propensity any might have to recognize or acknowledge it as coming in greater or lesser measure in regards to any other place.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
Amen to the first sentence.

Does the second have any power over it to negate/modify/limit by any encroachment? Or even distort by expansion?

I don't see that it does.

All authority in the Church belongs to Jesus Christ regardless of any propensity any might have to recognize or acknowledge it as coming in greater or lesser measure in regards to any other place.
Jesus Christ placed men in charge until his return.

I do understand that many on here are capable of having every question, thought, and concern directly and specifically answered by the creator of everything visible and invisible.

I have not been elevated to that status and therefore rely, in part, on some of those wise men he has put in charge of his church.
 

Israel

Senior Member
Jesus Christ placed men in charge until his return.

I do understand that many on here are capable of having every question, thought, and concern directly and specifically answered by the creator of everything visible and invisible.

I have not been elevated to that status and therefore rely, in part, on some of those wise men he has put in charge of his church.
I have a sense this

I do understand that many on here are capable of having every question, thought, and concern directly and specifically answered by the creator of everything visible and invisible.
may be being said in some facetiousness and I would be the last one with any standing to have issue with that. And even if it is said with some facetious intent it bears considering. Maybe especially so.

It is because a man need no personal declaration of his own fullness to testify that all that is found in the Lord Jesus is available to all that are His, without exception. There is no finding of limit except the Lord be dealing with presumption. Then the man must find frustration till his own presumption is revealed.

Paul considered (even in his office and calling...or was it because of it?)

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

For though he might be the last (or never) to confess to any lack of need for every part of the body (he called himself a debtor)...he also understood no good thing would be withheld from him by Christ's revealing. Rather he was persuaded, and sought to persuade others...it alone, the revelation of Jesus Christ to man was the good thing of all given to man.

Though he may have experienced and well understood in his understanding and working out of his calling that though he may be given to see certain things first...or before...or even differently than certain others it was all for the working out of his calling they were to be distributed that all might enter into that fullness.

If there is found some consistency in his letters relative to this it is surely not "I understand why you all don't quite get it yet...because you are not an apostle"...but rather, and time and again, more a rebuke for not grasping all the matters he had sought to make plain...and believed were to be grasped by even (what some might call in some error) "even the common believer". We could reference whole hosts of them.

Whether he was right in all those appraisals is moot for I am persuaded the Lord was continuously working with him, in him, for him...to be manifest through him for his fullness of joy...a further breaking down...as meal is ground fine so that none would suffer indigestion. Even as part and parcel of his calling. Nevertheless on several occasions his exasperations...even seeming frustrations...were made plain in what he believed others ought to have attained to (in his estimation and timing) "by now".

But these are the straits Christ has navigated for us so there be a right distribution. How that those matters the natural man cannot receive can be made, and only by the spirit's sufficiency...available to all who are the Lord's. Even if yet captive to natural thinking...or as Paul described...the thinking of "mere men". (I am of Paul, I am of Apollos...)

There is a very active impetus of "working one's self out of a job" in all ministry and callings along with (it could seem paradoxical) a maintenance of the singular priority of dependence upon Christ for all things. That is start and end of all, for each and every to such sufficiency that, as Paul said

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Nothing reserved for "certains"...nothing withheld from "certains".

Again to seeming paradox and/or contradiction it was a man who wrote (by the Spirit's inspiration)

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Did this man need to teach that? Or, did he have to learn it?

I am fully persuaded he finally understood through his diligent attendance to teaching all he was taught that all might be full

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And knew no greater joy than finding himself worked out of a job.

"I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."
He said.
 
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Israel

Senior Member
I agree 100% that the government has absolutely no business shutting down churches. Never said that I did. My point is that having some common sense and missing a couple Sundays of church is better than missing potentially several decades of it (not to mention what your family has to go through,) because you're stubborn and dead. I don't think Jesus would mind at all.
You touch something when you say stubborn. A stiff necked stance in regards to certain things.

I used to consider the Lord's submission relative to my own personality. The how of "if I were in that position I see how I might be". But, of course, it didn't take into account that I, knowing nothing could not ever rightly project myself into that position.

I am a rebel by natural inclination. Stiff necked, stubborn.

If I, being beaten and bloodied and torn already to shredding by a flagrum...and then ordered to carry that cross/beam/stauro up that hill...I might be inclined to say..."no". (I am a man very fond of comfortable naps)

I could see a very reasonable argument being made thus..."Look, I know what you are going to do to me with that beam once I trudge it up there, you are going to nail me to it and hang me up till I die...I'm tired, beat...had enough...and now you think I'm going to exhaust myself completely by carrying it up there? Look, just do what you gotta do...even here...even now...but to think I'm going to further participate in heaping suffering to suffering to myself...yer crazy".

So, at least there, for me, was some very obvious starting point in recognition that I am not at all like my Lord. And from there came all recognition of, not only at that point...but every and any I might mention...I am not "like Him" at all. His sole motive was always to that appointment...all His speaking led Him there, all His teaching led Him there...all His working of miracles...His coming into the world...were leading Him there......in His perfect submission to that demonstration of perfect submission.

Me, I can't utter one word without some form of self interest being made plain...some form of seeking to save my own life...being obvious.

It seems the only right question a man like me might ask himself in some form of faith that his asking is being heard..."How can such a man be saved being so contrary to what he sees as right, and just, and good?"

A man gets quite a bit to marvel at when he is finally pressed to ask the question One waits patiently for to be asked.

"Who then can be saved?" the disciples asked in astonishment at one point.

A man might even begin to see all manner of impossible things being done. When he knows it is all impossible for himself.
 
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