Jews must have something in the water.

[Spineyman]

I'll admit I did ramble a bit on a couple of responses. One point I was looking at is the various beliefs concerning the Abrahamic Covenant as it concerns; He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.”
Trolling for input? Sure.

Here is what Paul thought it was;

Galatians 3:8
What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you."

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood, men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 11:28
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"God himself is the one who decided to make Christianity's "Seed" Jewish. Don't ask me why, I don't know. I've often wondered why he chose a nation? If it was eventually not going matter, why did he go that route to begin with?"

Romans 29-31
29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

 

[hobbs27]

Romans 11:28
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"God himself is the one who decided to make Christianity's "Seed" Jewish. Don't ask me why, I don't know. I've often wondered why he chose a nation? If it was eventually not going matter, why did he go that route to begin with?"

Romans 29-31
29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

If in God's eyes there is no longer Jew nor Greek, how can we honestly say Jew's are still loved by God because of genealogy?

 

[hobbs27]

Addressing the op. I think all race of man have the ability to invent and create great things. culture, parents, discipline, and exposure to learning with encouragement are all the limiting or supporting factors.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

If in God's eyes there is no longer Jew nor Greek, how can we honestly say Jew's are still loved by God because of genealogy?

huhhh.. Because God says so?

"They shall be My people, and l will be their God. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me."-Jer 32:38, 40.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Ezekiel 37:11-14
Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' 12"Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13"Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14"I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.

Kinda lines up with Jeremiah 31:31–34 and Romans 11;

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”…

 

[Artfuldodger]

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

This concerns salvation by the grafting in to the Commonwealth of Israel. In that respect there is no longer Jew nor Gentile, male and female.
If this is used to show there is no longer Jew and Greek, then let's use it to show there is no longer male and female as well.
Do we still have male and female humans? The Bible says concerning salvation no but otherwise, Yes.

Just because those that were once strangers to the Commonwealth of Israel have been grafted in doesn't take away from the fact that we still have Jews and Gentiles, males and females.

If someone can explain away Romans 11 otherwise, I'd like to hear a logical explanation.

 

[hobbs27]

:

huhhh.. Because God says so?

"They shall be My people, and l will be their God. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me."-Jer 32:38, 40.

They have been departed since they were no more. Their covenant is fulfilled.

 

[hobbs27]

We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[Artfuldodger]

We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

You don't see any promises made to Israel in the Bible other than the Seed?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

"What were these covenants(plural) of the promise?"

Romans 9:4
They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

"promises?"(plural)

Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

"Why a distinction?"

Maybe there was a promised Seed that was the main promise and there were other promises as well.
We could say that through Adam came the Seed and Noah as well.

What do you reckon was God's reason for choosing Israel? Why did God make Christianity's beginnings a national thing? Why did he elect a Remnant our of Israel and harden the rest? Keep in mine that the Remnant wasn't chosen by works but by grace and grace alone.

You seem to be saying that there is or never was a distinction. Was there ever a time when anything related to God was about genealogy?
Was genealogy only needed to bring the Seed into the world? In other words the only reason God used Israel was to provide a genealogical path for the Seed and a way for that chosen race to kill him?

If the Jews were hardened or "set up" for this plan or mission, wouldn't it stand to reason that maybe "all Israel will be saved?"

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

Romans 11 has to be about physical Israel and not the Church. So even if the Savior already came in 70AD, it means that God made a distinction to and for the nation of Israel.
Maybe there isn't a distinction any more but there was when Paul wrote Romans 11.

"Election of a Remnant out of Israel and hardening the others until the full number of Gentiles came in. Then all of Israel being saved."

Even if it has already happened it shows that God made promises to national Israel that he fulfilled. Election based on the Patriarchs. Salvation to the House of Jacob. God's covenant with them when he took away their sins.
Do not be ignorant of this mystery. Do not be conceited about this mystery.
God’s gifts and His call were irrevocable even if it's already happened. The distinction was there. Even when salvation was being granted without distinction.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.…

 

[Artfuldodger]

We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 22:17
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

"Sounds like a promise to seeds."

Romans 15:8-10
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise You among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to Your name.” 10Again, it says: “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people.”

Promises(plural) to the patriarchs. Rejoice Gentiles with "His" people.

So we have promises to seeds(plural) and we have the promise of the Seed(singular). Both types came by way of genealogy. Both types came through and to Abraham.

 

[hobbs27]

Genesis 22:17
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

"Sounds like a promise to seeds."

Romans 15:8-10
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise You among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to Your name.” 10Again, it says: “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people.”

Promises(plural) to the patriarchs. Rejoice Gentiles with "His" people.

So we have promises to seeds(plural) and we have the promise of the Seed(singular). Both types came by way of genealogy. Both types came through and to Abraham.

The seed is the heir of Abraham. The "seeds" are the Joint heirs of Christ.

Jesus was the first to receive the inheritance. Through faith the first century Christians were joint heirs of the promises made to the patriarchs.
The will had been probated, and the inheritance ( Kingdom and everlasting life) was finally being inherited.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

:

They have been departed since they were no more. Their covenant is fulfilled.

Notice the hard left turn to 70ad. And in the Other Faiths forum too. Must have gotten lonely upstairs, since most have pretty much given up posting up there due to this same nonsense.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Notice the hard left turn to 70ad. And in the Other Faiths forum too. Must have gotten lonely upstairs, since most have pretty much given up posting up there due to this same nonsense.

I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.

Yeah. Pretty much any intelligent or interesting post up there is soon taken over by Hobbs and/or Art and either turned into whatever they choose or totally derailed. Lot of good posters just quit and who can blame them. Personally I wish they were banned. They add nothing and only disrupt.

 

[hobbs27]

I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.

You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.

The only problem is, somebody forgot to tell Jerusalem / Israel.

 

[hobbs27]

Israel today is a political non secular country formed after ww2. When for the first time since the first century Judaism became a majority of the population which was caused by Zionism.

 

[Artfuldodger]

You don't have to respond. You can even block me if you so choose. All I do is answer questions like this one you just posed.

Christians have been granted everlasting life... Yet we will all die.
Just as our Spiritual life is everlasting so was the covenant IE marriage contract with the old Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was God's bride, yet she became the Harlot and was put to death, rose again Spiritually as the New Jerusalem and remmaried in the New Covenant.

Do you see it as yet another resurrection? Jesus was resurrected and we as individuals will be or were.
So you see even one more type, physical Israel being resurrected as spiritual Israel. This spiritual Israel is what the Gentiles were grafted into?
I've been reading about this re-birth in Ezekiel 36-37. The story of the dry bones. Sounds to me like it is about the resurrection/rebirth you addressed. Eventually the bones took on flesh but lacked one thing. Breath or spirituality. Then Ezekiel prophesied and breath came to them and they lived. God said, “I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live”
It's the same prophesy in Jeremiah 31.

I would agree that it is a rebirth of Israel. The dry bones account gives this rebirth to the physical. First they are dead. Then they take on flesh but have no breath. Eventually they are given life through breath.
I don't read it as physical becoming spiritual but physical gaining spirituality through the breath of God. Otherwise in the dry bones account, they wouldn't have taken on new flesh.

God said these bones represent the people of Israel. The people of Israel thought they were dried up, completely cut off. Then God said I will bring you back to the land of Israel. I will settle you in your own land.
Then God tells Ezekiel to take two sticks, to write Ephraim on one and Judah on the other, and to join the sticks together. Joining the two sticks visually illustrates all Israel being regathered and reunited as one people.
God said I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.
Then Israel will be cleansed from all her defilement of sin, idolatry, and detestable things and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them.
They will live in the land I gave my servant Jacob, the land where their ancestors lived. They and their children and their grandchildren after them will live there forever, generation after generation.

God said I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.