Lanier turnover

[across the river]

Interesting that the water treatment experts call the months long process "turnover". They must all be Hooch trout guys

Most are. They also call greensunfish warmouth, crappie perch, and tame dock ducks pintails as well. There are plenty of them on this forum.

 

[fishmonger]

Uh huh. You do realize that the link you posted is to NGTO, that the old manager of the hatchery on the Hooch wrote it, and it was in regards to how turnover in the lake effects the river, right? You might want to let this one go, Professor.

 

[across the river]

Uh huh. You do realize that the link you posted is to NGTO, that the old manager of the hatchery on the Hooch wrote it, and it was in regards to how turnover in the lake effects the river, right? You might want to let this one go, Professor.

Dude, why do have such an issue with this? I know exactly who wrote it, and I know he is talking about Lanier, which is why I posted it. Did you actually read it? He specifically says that dissolved metals due to low oxygen levels cause the color in the river in late summer, which was the question on here. Not lake turnover which occurs near the end of the year when the water layers mix. I think he even mentions Christmas time as being when turnover occurs, if I remember correct. I don’t care what you “hooch guys”’call it, but turnover is not occurring now, in September. I’m not the in one who needs to let it go.


Highlights from the link I posted since you obviously didn't read it.


"LakeTurnover is a term that is often used incorrectly to describe one period of the annual cycle of lake stratification (layering), which affects the water quality of Southeastern reservoirs."


"By summer’s end, the lake is strongly stratified. The epilimnion is warm; it receives sunlight and has plenty of oxygen. Water temperature and oxygen concentrations within the thermocline are both lower, but still often provide acceptable habitat for cool water fish species like stripers and walleye."


"In the hypolimnion (deeper than 60 feet), the water is stagnant, cold, and low in oxygen (less than 3 ppm). Fish cannot survive in this deepest layer when dissolved oxygen drops much below 3 ppm. As the oxygen concentrations get low, some metals and sulfides in the lake sediments become soluble. These dissolve in the water and are passed downstream as water leaves Lake Lanier and enters the river. This is first noticeable in late September or early October, when these metals and sulfides give the river water its distinctive fall colors and a rotten egg smell."

"In the fall, as air temperatures drop, the lake begins to lose heat, and the process of de-stratification begins. The warm water of the epilimnion cools and becomes deeper and denser. It still has lots of oxygen. As the epilimnion’s density approaches the density of the hypolimnion, mixing of the layers can take place. When this happens the stratification is broken and the bottom water mixes with the surface water, and the lake is no longer stratified. This event is called "Lake Turnover”, and generally occurs around Christmas each year."

 

[fishmonger]

"Dude, why do have such an issue with this?"

I have an issue because the discoloration of the river is an annual process that ultimately concludes with turnover. Since there is not a great name for the whole process, lots of guys call the whole process, from the water turning green (which it did early this year) to turnover (which I said happens at around Christmas), turnover, for ease of discussion. This includes the OP, who asked "Has the turn over began early this year do to hot weather?", and he and I and you all knew exactly what he meant, meaning he communicated clearly, even if his terminology was not 100% scientifically correct. Everybody that uses the term in this way knows that turnover does not happen in September, they are referring to the PROCESS, not the EVENT.

Sometimes words have 2 meanings, and this is one of those times.

The OP also used the wrong spelling of "due" in his question. Neither you nor anyone else busted his chops for that. Why? Because it is petty, and his misspelling did not change the intent or clarity of his question. In my opinion, neither did his usage of the term turnover, and I think you should give him the same leeway with that as the spelling, and for the same reason.

Have a great day.

 

[across the river]

"Dude, why do have such an issue with this?"

I have an issue because the discoloration of the river is an annual process that ultimately concludes with turnover. Since there is not a great name for the whole process, lots of guys call the whole process, from the water turning green (which it did early this year) to turnover (which I said happens at around Christmas), turnover, for ease of discussion. This includes the OP, who asked "Has the turn over began early this year do to hot weather?", and he and I and you all knew exactly what he meant, meaning he communicated clearly, even if his terminology was not 100% scientifically correct. Everybody that uses the term in this way knows that turnover does not happen in September, they are referring to the PROCESS, not the EVENT.

Sometimes words have 2 meanings, and this is one of those times.

The OP also used the wrong spelling of "due" in his question. Neither you nor anyone else busted his chops for that. Why? Because it is petty, and his misspelling did not change the intent or clarity of his question. In my opinion, neither did his usage of the term turnover, and I think you should give him the same leeway with that as the spelling, and for the same reason.

Have a great day.

The discoloration has nothing to do with turnover whatsoever. That is my point. It has to do with stratification and low dissolved oxygen in the depths of the lake cause metals to dissolve into that lower level of water. It has nothing to do with the lake “starting to turnover.”

Just because a person misuses a word to describe something doesn’t mean it has two meanings. If my wife and I call our dog a cat, it doesn’t mean our neighbors are going to know what we are talking about if we go outside and ask ”have you seen our cat?” If we want to call it a cat great, but it doesn’t mean it is really a cat. In the same since, discoloration of the river in September isn’t “turn over.” If you want to call it that and the trout guys understand it, great. But that doesn’t mean that other people who actually use the term for actual lake turnover will know what you are talking about. I have no problem whatsoever with you calling it turnover, but most people on here are not “hooch trout guys.” What I don’t get is why you want to argue that it is turnover when you know yourself that you are using the term incorrectly. If someone who is new to fishing and doesn’t really know anything about turnover, it would be nice if they could come on here and actually learn what it is. Otherwise they may go to the pet store and ask to adopt a cat when they really want a dog.

 

[fishmonger]

It is also nice to answer a guy, who is not a newbie, without browbeating him over semantics.

 

[Coenen]

There's a saying or two floating around out there about arguing on the Internet...

 

[ggg]

I won't be using the word "turnover" anymore till the appropriate time , now that I know it all starts with "stratification". Thanks for the education.

 

[watermedic]

The discoloration has nothing to do with turnover whatsoever. That is my point. It has to do with stratification and low dissolved oxygen in the depths of the lake cause metals to dissolve into that lower level of water. It has nothing to do with the lake “starting to turnover.”

Just because a person misuses a word to describe something doesn’t mean it has two meanings. If my wife and I call our dog a cat, it doesn’t mean our neighbors are going to know what we are talking about if we go outside and ask ”have you seen our cat?” If we want to call it a cat great, but it doesn’t mean it is really a cat. In the same since, discoloration of the river in September isn’t “turn over.” If you want to call it that and the trout guys understand it, great. But that doesn’t mean that other people who actually use the term for actual lake turnover will know what you are talking about. I have no problem whatsoever with you calling it turnover, but most people on here are not “hooch trout guys.” What I don’t get is why you want to argue that it is turnover when you know yourself that you are using the term incorrectly. If someone who is new to fishing and doesn’t really know anything about turnover, it would be nice if they could come on here and actually learn what it is. Otherwise they may go to the pet store and ask to adopt a cat when they really want a dog.

Just so you know, the pH and temperature have more to do with the dissolution of iron and manganese. The low pH water contains organic acids that make organic iron and manganese. Iron will discolor water at .3 ppm (parts per million) and Manganese will discolor water at .050 ppm or 50 ppb (parts per billion) Both are naturally occurring and are not harmful except for the staining left behind. Neither have anything to do with lake turnover other than when the lake destratifies, it becomes mixed in the water column for a period of time until it settles back out.

 

[across the river]

Just so you know, the pH and temperature have more to do with the dissolution of iron and manganese. The low pH water contains organic acids that make organic iron and manganese. Iron will discolor water at .3 ppm (parts per million) and Manganese will discolor water at .050 ppm or 50 ppb (parts per billion) Both are naturally occurring and are not harmful except for the staining left behind. Neither have anything to do with lake turnover other than when the lake destratifies, it becomes mixed in the water column for a period of time until it settles back out.

Please go read the link I posted. It explains it all. Late in the year, both the lake
and river get discolored when the upper and lower layers in the lake mix (Turnover) when it starts getting cold after the lake has been stratified all summer. When that happens all the stuff that gets kicked up in the mixing settles out fairly quickly. That is turnover and it isn’t happening now, it’s September. I have said that 50 times in this thread alone.


The color you see starting in September and October(now) has to do with low dissolved oxygen levels in the lower layer of the lake, but the discoloration is seen in the river below the dam which is where that water is released to. When all of the dissolved oxygen in the bottom layer of the lake gets used up, metals that are not soluble in their oxidized state, become soluble and give the water the color and smell that you get in the river. The whole lake doesn’t stink or have color, because it only happens in the deep low oxygen water. This only happens in the deep water near the dam, which is why it is seen in the river. When the metals
get into the river they are oxidized again and settle out. It happens every year around the same time (sept/oct) as does lake turnover(Dec/Jan). It isn’t that hard of a concept to understand. If they were pumping oxygen into the bottom of the Lanier like the do Clark’s Hill, you wouldn’t get the pronounce color in the river in September because then oxygen level at the bottom of the lake would never reach what is essentially zero, so you would not get then same level of dissolved metals that causes the color. You would however, still get turnover at the end of the year, which would discolor both the lake and the river until everything settles back down to the bottom.

 

[across the river]

It is also nice to answer a guy, who is not a newbie, without browbeating him over semantics.

No one is brow beating anyone. It is a discussion. That is what you do in a forum. If I wanted to brow beat people I would get a twitter account.

 

[i_fish]

I notice the river below the dam has that murky green look. Has the turn over began erly this year do to hot weather ? or more crap rotting on the bottom? or high water ?

I just read this on the DNR's latest fishing reports.
Maybe this will clear up some of the confusion from some poster's using the term "lake turnover" to describe what they are seeing in the river below the dam. This is confirming what across the river was explaining.

"Hooch Trout: (From Senior Fisheries Biologist Hunter Roop) — Chris Scalley with River Through Atlanta reports that the Chattahoochee River below Lanier has been fishing really well lately. First, don’t be alarmed by the yellow-greenish discoloration of the water—this phenomenon occurs like clockwork during late summer each year. Why? Lanier has been stratified (i.e., layers of water are separated according to temperature-driven density differences) since early summer, and the oxygen-deficient lake bottom causes solid forms of natural metals (like iron and manganese) to dissolve and go into solution. The resulting outflows are distinctly discolored, reflecting high concentrations of chemically reduced compounds in the water."

Hope this helps as I'm not trying to stir the pot or disparage anyone's comments,
i_fish

 

[Richf7]

I have one question: Will fish still bite?

 

[Richf7]

Is there a relationship between low dissolved oxygen discoloring the water and high turbidity?

 

[EDH]

That’s two questions.

 

[rgreen1377]

Whatever whoever calls it, the green tinge is an annual good thing.

Deer season has gotten started, chill is in the air, tube hatch has by and large ended, ramps are getting empty and big fish are starting to get stupid.

It’s the “dogwoods blooming” of fall IMHO.