Let the .41 mag talk

I suggest the way to do everything is to test, even on revolvers. Test primers, etc. I have been in the gun thing my whole life and made many custom rifles, checkered and carved. Many of my stocks came from planks I cut from fallen trees and cured. Like this on I made from cherry for my 1919 Swede. 100_1276.jpg 100_1277.jpg 100_1279.jpg
 
Let's go a little. Case tension is what controls the burn for accuracy. NOT crimp and if you crimp too hard you will ruin the tension. If you shoot cast, you have to use hard lead like water dropped wheel weight bullets. Soft will squeeze down. Anyway back in the early 80's I knew something was wrong by how it felt to seat bullets. I experimented by sorting but feel is not enough. I had BR .44 dies made to fit my normal press. They use sizing rings like the Redding dies. I found brass could not be sorted to size, back to the drawing board. Next I took 50 new cases and shot all from a rest at 50 to find 7 different group positions I sorted by where the bullet went to a group. It worked but brass changes as it is shot so all goes bad again. New brass at the first firing is the worst.
I contacted alien's with my special hat to come up with this. 100_0988.jpg 1/8" spring steel rod anchored at the base of the handle. The short rod is graduated and has a slip link to the long rod. a faucet washer rides it. You have to drill a hole for it in the handle. 100_0987.jpg I just start the bullet and seat with the rod, it bends and leaves the washer at a mark. Put that round in a marked spot on the bench. Reset the washer and load the next. Do not crimp with the rod, go to the handle. You will have about 6 piles of loads and each will do almost one hole at 50. Mix them and 3 to 4" will be good.
Then I found Hornady New Dimension dies are the only dies to make accurate loads, No other works as well.
Sadly this setup does not work for rifle loads as the press handle gets too low. Cost is almost nothing and you can buy piano wire at a hobby shop.
 
Bullet diameter for a revolver is important, the XTP's are .430 and work well. Cast has to be .001 to .002 over groove so you have to slug your bore. Pure round balls work well. I like Lee bullet sizing dies because I can lap them to fit. Don't use alox lube. Find the recipe for Felix lube, if you can't I will provide it. The lubes must be tested as groups can change drastically. Marlingroups.jpg
LBT hard blue and Felix at 50, 5 shots.
I apply Felix by hand to run through the Lee die. This was the 310 gr Lee bullet that works well in the .44.
 
Twist is important and the 1 in 20 of the Ruger will support 330 gr and maybe more. BFR's are faster. My 45-70 has 1 in 14" and the .475 has 1 in 15". Dimension are super with the cylinder throats in the .475 at .4765 and groove at .475, I size .476.
Throats in the .45-70 are .4592 and groove is .458, I size .459.
The 500 JRH has throats of .5015 and groove of .500, size .501.
MY SBH has throats of .4324, groove .430, size .431.
The throats can be larger then the bullet, no harm at all. Never smaller though. My SBH has around 190,000 rounds through it with no measurable wear, just some sand blasting at the cone. Long ago I changed the cone to 11 degrees.
After cleaning your revolver use STP oil treatment on the cylinder pin and a small drop on the ratchet.
S&W has a 1 in 18" twist and 240 gr bullets will rotate around the flight path. looks like a corkscrew through a spotting scope. Moving to a 250 gr stops it for a smooth path.
 
S&W is a great gun with a flaw. The cylinder stop is poorly engineered and inertia can unlock the cylinder. It will rotate backwards and the .500 will double if there is a live round there. Even the recoil of the .44 will leave double strikes on the primer or a strike on the head of the case. The spring for the cylinder stop is too weak, I informed S&W, they said operator error but now offer stronger springs.
You really need to see that the pressure from the primer will impinge the Double strike on primer.jpg firing pin and send the hammer to near full cock, video shows it, even on SA's. The SA will not unlock and I don't know why.
 
One thing I forgot to mention is what is needed for bullet hardness as loads get lighter. Many love to load fast powders to reduce recoil for practice and that is fine. However as the powders get faster you need a harder bullet to resist deformation and slump from the instant pressure rise. My normal bullet is around 22 BHN with water dropped WW alloy but with 231 or Unique type powders I found going up to 30 BHN is best. Many of my tests have shown this. I have a picture of slump to show. th_slump.jpg You can also see a change in rifling contact that will need a change in twist rates or a velocity you can't reach.
Then another thing I forgot is lube hardness. If you recover bullets with some lube left in grooves, that will play hob with accuracy. You want all lube to exit at muzzle release so soft is better.
 
I also want to tell you about cylinder play. Side to side play is needed to allow the cylinder to "clock" to the rifling. It does not take much here but those that love super tight and no cylinder turn will lose a lot of accuracy.
 

Newt2

Senior Member
My current .41 Magnum desire. The Charter Arms 41 Mag Pug. The 41 was my all time go to firearm, but it wasn't available in a compact carry gun - until now. All reviews show it to be a great performer yet the sharp recoil is a deterrent. If I had one, I would shoot cowboy loads for practice and then a light weight bullet for carry.

If I bought one now, I would get 1 box of premium defensive ammo, see how it shot then keep it as a bedside gun. The main thing for me is simply possessing one.
 

Attachments

Thread starter #57

tcward

Senior Member
My current .41 Magnum desire. The Charter Arms 41 Mag Pug. The 41 was my all time go to firearm, but it wasn't available in a compact carry gun - until now. All reviews show it to be a great performer yet the sharp recoil is a deterrent. If I had one, I would shoot cowboy loads for practice and then a light weight bullet for carry.

If I bought one now, I would get 1 box of premium defensive ammo, see how it shot then keep it as a bedside gun. The main thing for me is simply possessing one.
Taurus makes a snubby also. The model 415.
 
I also want to tell you about cylinder play. Side to side play is needed to allow the cylinder to "clock" to the rifling. It does not take much here but those that love super tight and no cylinder turn will lose a lot of accuracy.
Mr. Miner,
I appreciate the information you have provided. Please continue.
 
Top