Matthew 27 and the resurrection...

[BANDERSNATCH]

Matthew 27 and the 'seen by many' resurrected saints.... I just could not grasp these passages, and reading commentaries by Christians commentators left me scratching my head. I'd like to see what you guys think about it in this poll. Up until about 5 years ago, I was in the 'didn't happen' camp. No longer! I think you'll enjoy my explanation, but I'm not going to say anything (if i can stand it) until after the polling ends. lol

 

[j_seph]

Have you read in Isaiah 26:19 or 1 Thessalonians 4:14 or Daniel 12:2?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Have you read in Isaiah 26:19 or 1 Thessalonians 4:14 or Daniel 12:2?

It’s not about whether there is a resurrection, but were others resurrected the same day Jesus was raised? Many believers believe that only Jesus was resurrected that day

 

[Artfuldodger]

Did it happen at Christ's death or his resurrection? I've read it both ways. Maybe in verse 52 they were awakened but didn't go to town until verse 53.
When they were in the city they appeared to many. I'm assuming the people knew them or else, they would not have known they appeared.
any idea if they lived and died again or did the go to Heaven?

 

[j_seph]

It’s not about whether there is a resurrection, but were others resurrected the same day Jesus was raised? Many believers believe that only Jesus was resurrected that day

If the bible says so then absolutely

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

I'm assuming the people knew them or else, they would not have known they appeared.
any idea if they lived and died again or did the go to Heaven?

Great question.... why secretly raise people who probably knew no one living? I believe that when you understand the Feast of First Fruits, you'll see what happened.

Here's my explanation.


the Feast of First Fruits!

As I mentioned before, I used to believe that the resurrection of others, after Jesus' resurrection, was an interpolation by some other translator. Could not have happened. Why raise people who potentially knew no one living? Made no sense to me.....UNTIL I LEARNED HOW JESUS FULFILLED THE SPRING FEAST DAYS! (Fall feasts to be fulfilled at HIs second coming)
Here ya go....
During Passover week - having Passover on the 14th and then immediately followed by the 7-day Feast of Unleaved Bread - the High Priest had certain jobs that he had to perform. After the Passover lamb was slain, he would walk over to the Mount of Olives and 'mark' a bundle of mature barley by tying a string around a clump of barley. He would then go into seclusion and could not be touched until First Fruits (which is the Sunday during the Feast of Unleavened Bread) when he would then walk across to the Mount of Olives and harvest the marked barley. He would then take this barley into the temple and present it to God as a wave offering. He could not be touched until he did this. We know this from the Jewish writings (Talmud I believe) where they recorded how things were done in the temple.
Here's where it gets interesting. Jesus, our High Priest and the Passover Lamb, was killed on the 14th of the month, and goes into seclusion until First Fruits. If you remember, there was an earthquake when Jesus died and at that time the tombs were of many were 'marked' and opened. There are two sabbath days (a High Day Sabbath and the weekly sabbath) immediately after Jesus is placed in the tomb, so these tombs could not be touched until Sunday. Jesus is in seclusion for 3 days/3 nights and early Sunday morning, rises and is seen by Mary. Jesus tells her not to touch Him, since He has not yet ascended. He tells her that He is about to ascend to heaven. Why? TO PRESENT THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE RESURRECTION TO THE FATHER IN THE HEAVENLY TEMPLE! Later, after having presented the First Fruits of the resurrection to the Father - these resurrected saints - He could then be touched by Thomas.
Revelation tells us that there are 24 "elders" in heaven. IMO, they are these resurrected saints. I Cor 15 tells us that there are 3 resurrections; "Christ the First Fruits, then we which are His at His coming", and then at the end of the millenium, when all are raised for judgement. But, there are no commas in Greek, so the verse could (should) read "Christ, the First Fruits, ....)
Understanding the Feast of First Fruits tells us what Jesus was doing that Sunday morning, in fulfillment of First Fruits.

 

[j_seph]

Don't think Thomas ever did touch him did he?

 

[Artfuldodger]

When did Christ ascend to the Father? I can see the resurrected saints thing but not an ascension of Christ at that event.

Also many believe the word "touch" should be "cling" in John 20:17. That Jesus was just telling Mary to not cling to him but to go and spread the word about his ascending. Is the correct word ascended or future ascending in John 20:17?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Don't think Thomas ever did touch him did he?

Not that it says, but he could have touched Jesus, in contrast to Jesus' instructions to Mary not to touch Him.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

When did Christ ascend to the Father? I can see the resurrected saints thing but not an ascension of Christ at that event.

Also many believe the word "touch" should be "cling" in John 20:17. That Jesus was just telling Mary to not cling to him but to go and spread the word about his ascending. Is the correct word ascended or future ascending in John 20:17?

Jesus told Mary that He was about to ascend, which is what the High Priest did every First Fruits with a first fruits offering. First Fruits points to the harvesting of the righteous from the earth. Barley has always represented righteous people.

Also, why would Jesus tell Mary to tell the others that He was ascending if it wasn't eminent? Jesus could have told them later, in a few hours, when He appeared to them. It's obvious that He was going to ascend to heaven, as He had done before.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Jesus told Mary that He was about to ascend, which is what the High Priest did every First Fruits with a first fruits offering. First Fruits points to the harvesting of the righteous from the earth. Barley has always represented righteous people.

Also, why would Jesus tell Mary to tell the others that He was ascending if it wasn't eminent? Jesus could have told them later, in a few hours, when He appeared to them. It's obvious that He was going to ascend to heaven, as He had done before.

It does seem like this ascension was eminent, not something that was going to happen in 40 days.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Thomas said “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

That's way different than clinging.

Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

I would think Thomas touched him as requested by Jesus. It's hard to imagine Jesus walked around for 40 days without anyone touching him.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

paraphrased... "you can't touch me until I go to heaven. Tell the boys that I'm going there" That same day, in the evening, He appeared to the disciples. His First Fruits work was done

 

[Artfuldodger]

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

paraphrased... "you can't touch me until I go to heaven. Tell the boys that I'm going there" That same day, in the evening, He appeared to the disciples. His First Fruits work was done

Did he go spiritually or physically that first day after his resurrection?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Did he go spiritually or physically that first day after his resurrection?

I'd assume physically, as that's how He was taken up to heaven later. He was flesh and blood each time He was seen after the resurrection, too. No reason to think it was spiritual, unless there's some kind of theological bias involved...

 

[Artfuldodger]

I'd assume physically, as that's how He was taken up to heaven later. He was flesh and blood each time He was seen after the resurrection, too. No reason to think it was spiritual, unless there's some kind of theological bias involved...

Do you think those that resurrected with Jesus are the Saints under the Altar? Will they return with Jesus at His next coming?

 

[gordon 2]

Are there other parallels to Jesus' ministry or in the gospel accounts, as in this case, were Jesus would have fulfilled "the law" or finished what had been type as were the religious customs and rights of the High Priest or the Jewish cult?

Links?


a)I notice that Pentecost ( feast of harvest) 30 or 40 days after Frist Fruits might also be included as per your account here or observation. Which, would make the receiving of the Holy Spirit indicative of a believer's inclusion in the harvest. ?/? Am I somewhat correct?

b) Could a case be made that the account of the Death of Jesus and the "marking" of the graves of saints as per your observation, three days in the tomb, the Resurrection, the resurrection of the saints and the Ascension to heaven were derived by an author who was "just" following the significance of the Jewish religious rites, that is, of the Feast of First Fruits up to Pentecost as a template for his organization of his narrative account? An imaginative person could have easily done this. So, if not, why not?

PS. The reason for the Eucharist or for the bread and wine of communion is given a great significance by your observation in this post. The life of a believer is Christ and Christ as food as the life of the Jewish people was assured by God's blessing of the wheat harvest and so bread. Feeding a large crowd of people for just a few loafs of bread also. etc...