New fishing rods

[Cmp1]

So true about the sensitivity,,,,

 

[Cmp1]

Wow, I could write a book on this! I'm on a temporary rod building hiatus (but might have to start back if my normal day job goes away, as many will.) But, over the last 15-20 years I've built and sold a couple thousand rods. Just about all were carbon fiber - that's the norm these days, and offers many benefits to fiberglass.

But, some drawbacks, too. Barjack is right - if you ever hit something pretty hard with the rod, it may very well do internal damage. It will look fine, but the next time you put some stress on that part, it will break right in half.

I test all rod blanks before building them into a rod, as every now and then a blank will have an internal flaw, and better to find that our before putting a lot of work into it. But, commercial rod companies don't do this. It's less expensive for them to just give your your money back than take a lot of extra time in the production. A rod that you pay $50 for costs a commercial rod company about $10, even less if it is made in China, which most of them are. I get the occasional email from Chinese companies, trying to sell me rods with my name on them. If I were to buy several thousand, I could get them for $10 apiece or so, and be able to sell them for $100. But, heck, I don't want my name on a piece of you know what like that! But, that's the way all those rods are made that you see with store brands, and even with famous bass fishermen's name on them.

I'm really surprised the Ugly Stick broke, though. They aren't really good rods at all, from the build quality and sensitivity, but they have always been bulletproof, at least the fiberglass ones were. The ones with the solid tips could just about be tied in a knot and not break. I've not handled their carbon rods, and I suspect they transition to fiberglass near the tip. A point of changing flexibility is always a weak point, the rod sort of hinges there and breaks easier.

But, with rare exceptions, I'll never go back to fiberglass (one of those exceptions is topwater popping cork fishing for stripers and hybrids. I built myself an 8 foot S glass rod for that, as sensitivity doesn't matter there. You see the fish hit). You can feel SO much more with a sensitive rod. Last weekend, I went bass fishing at a little pond in Athens. Caught six, all on an unweighted Senko. They were mostly small, 12-15 inches, and barely hit. One each one, I could barely feel a little single tap. No way I would have felt that with a glass rod. I would have either lost the fish, or he would have swallowed the lure.

In your expert opinion,,,,does cold affect the rods in any way? I bring mine in the basement now,but used to keep them hanging in my garage over the winter,,,,

 

[sbroadwell]

Well, CMP. I'm sorta completely dead in the water as far as rod building right now. First, I don't have but a few blanks in stock, and the present virus stuff seems to be putting a hurt on the service level of all the suppliers. More important, though, my wife has a bee in her bonnet about finishing a lot of the basement. She's had two rooms and a bathroom finished down there. I've still got plenty of workspace, but at the moment all sorts of stuff is piled up on my rod benches. I just barely cleared off enough space on my gun bench to clean a couple of guns. Maybe being stuck at home, I can get everything straightened out.

As for the cold harming rods in storage, I don't think so. Of course, we don't see nearly the cold down here that you do, so don't have any personal experience. Just from the material standpoint, I know that cold won't do any permanent harm. What I don't know is if the rod has been sitting in a real cold environment, then suddenly bent, if anything bad will happen. Don't think it would, but like I said, never really been in that environment with a rod. For safety, might want to warm them up just a bit if they've been very cold.

What I do know is that with the old fiberglass rods, if they were stored in real high heat, like inside a car, in a slightly bent position, they would take a set and become crooked. Carbon fiber won't do that.

 

[Cmp1]

Well, CMP. I'm sorta completely dead in the water as far as rod building right now. First, I don't have but a few blanks in stock, and the present virus stuff seems to be putting a hurt on the service level of all the suppliers. More important, though, my wife has a bee in her bonnet about finishing a lot of the basement. She's had two rooms and a bathroom finished down there. I've still got plenty of workspace, but at the moment all sorts of stuff is piled up on my rod benches. I just barely cleared off enough space on my gun bench to clean a couple of guns. Maybe being stuck at home, I can get everything straightened out.

As for the cold harming rods in storage, I don't think so. Of course, we don't see nearly the cold down here that you do, so don't have any personal experience. Just from the material standpoint, I know that cold won't do any permanent harm. What I don't know is if the rod has been sitting in a real cold environment, then suddenly bent, if anything bad will happen. Don't think it would, but like I said, never really been in that environment with a rod. For safety, might want to warm them up just a bit if they've been very cold.

What I do know is that with the old fiberglass rods, if they were stored in real high heat, like inside a car, in a slightly bent position, they would take a set and become crooked. Carbon fiber won't do that.

Thank you Sir,,,,

 

[Cmp1]

Well, CMP. I'm sorta completely dead in the water as far as rod building right now. First, I don't have but a few blanks in stock, and the present virus stuff seems to be putting a hurt on the service level of all the suppliers. More important, though, my wife has a bee in her bonnet about finishing a lot of the basement. She's had two rooms and a bathroom finished down there. I've still got plenty of workspace, but at the moment all sorts of stuff is piled up on my rod benches. I just barely cleared off enough space on my gun bench to clean a couple of guns. Maybe being stuck at home, I can get everything straightened out.

As for the cold harming rods in storage, I don't think so. Of course, we don't see nearly the cold down here that you do, so don't have any personal experience. Just from the material standpoint, I know that cold won't do any permanent harm. What I don't know is if the rod has been sitting in a real cold environment, then suddenly bent, if anything bad will happen. Don't think it would, but like I said, never really been in that environment with a rod. For safety, might want to warm them up just a bit if they've been very cold.

What I do know is that with the old fiberglass rods, if they were stored in real high heat, like inside a car, in a slightly bent position, they would take a set and become crooked. Carbon fiber won't do that.

One other quick question,,,,is there a big difference between IM7 and IM6?

 

[sbroadwell]

Who makes the best blanks?

In my opinion, of the finished rods you can buy, without a doubt the best is St.Croix. Their blanks are top notch, and most are still made in Wisconsin. They do have a plant in Mexico, where they make some of the less expensive rods. Unfortunately, last year they quit selling the Wisconsin blanks to rod builders. Supposedly, the Mexican ones are just as good. I do know that their chief engineer/blank designer works in both places.

Not only are their blanks good, but the rods are made well. I've repaired a lot of rods, and you would not believe what some of the supposedly higher quality rods (like Allstar, even back when they were good, do). Like, cardboard mandrels between the reel seat and blank! Pretty much guaranteed to fail.

Loomis used to be good, real good. But, they have changed a lot since Gary sold the company to Shimano. No way would I pay the money for one of their rods these days.
Speaking of Loomis, Gary Loomis started a new company about 10 years ago, North Fork Composites. I actually won a blank of his at one of the rod building shows, and built it into a drop shot rod. I have never, ever felt a blank that is so nice! His company is still around, but it seems they are way over their head, financially, or something. All you hear on the rodbuilding sites are complaints about how long they are waiting for blank delivery - months!

Back when I was building a lot of rods, just about everything I built was on either Mudhole MHX or Batson Rainshadow. These are both Chinese. I think, from the way they are factory labeled, they both come out of the same factory, but no one will ever acknowledge that. Both are really good blanks. Maybe half the price of a St. Croix (back when you could get St. Croix), and about 90-95% of the performance. I don't have as much problem with Chinese blanks as I do with Chinese rod assembly. The blank manufacturing is not so dependent on people, its a pretty automated process. The rod assembly, though, is different. Just about everything is done by hand, and the faster they are assembled, the better. I used to think about that a lot as I was taking maybe a couple of hours or more to wrap a rod, and knowing that most rod companies pay only about $1.00 to their wrappers for a whole rod.

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

In my opinion, of the finished rods you can buy, without a doubt the best is St.Croix. Their blanks are top notch, and most are still made in Wisconsin. They do have a plant in Mexico, where they make some of the less expensive rods. Unfortunately, last year they quit selling the Wisconsin blanks to rod builders. Supposedly, the Mexican ones are just as good. I do know that their chief engineer/blank designer works in both places.

Not only are their blanks good, but the rods are made well. I've repaired a lot of rods, and you would not believe what some of the supposedly higher quality rods (like Allstar, even back when they were good, do). Like, cardboard mandrels between the reel seat and blank! Pretty much guaranteed to fail.

Loomis used to be good, real good. But, they have changed a lot since Gary sold the company to Shimano. No way would I pay the money for one of their rods these days.
Speaking of Loomis, Gary Loomis started a new company about 10 years ago, North Fork Composites. I actually won a blank of his at one of the rod building shows, and built it into a drop shot rod. I have never, ever felt a blank that is so nice! His company is still around, but it seems they are way over their head, financially, or something. All you hear on the rodbuilding sites are complaints about how long they are waiting for blank delivery - months!

Back when I was building a lot of rods, just about everything I built was on either Mudhole MHX or Batson Rainshadow. These are both Chinese. I think, from the way they are factory labeled, they both come out of the same factory, but no one will ever acknowledge that. Both are really good blanks. Maybe half the price of a St. Croix (back when you could get St. Croix), and about 90-95% of the performance. I don't have as much problem with Chinese blanks as I do with Chinese rod assembly. The blank manufacturing is not so dependent on people, its a pretty automated process. The rod assembly, though, is different. Just about everything is done by hand, and the faster they are assembled, the better. I used to think about that a lot as I was taking maybe a couple of hours or more to wrap a rod, and knowing that most rod companies pay only about $1.00 to their wrappers for a whole rod.

It seems like now if you want a north fork blank, you have to order a kistler rod or be prepared to wait. There's definitely rumors flying about the Loomis operation.

 

[lampern]

Thats sad to hear about Loomis rods.

Now I know why they bring a premium on Ebay

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

Thats sad to hear about Loomis rods.

Now I know why they bring a premium on Ebay

They bring a premium because gloomis is owned by Shimano now, and it seems there is a perception that they aren't made as well any more, I couldn't tell you, I own one Loomis inshore salt rod so I've never had a real gloomis.

 

[Cmp1]

How difficult is it to build a rod? I'm mechanically inclined,but have a bad back,,,,anyone know?

 

[sbroadwell]

One other quick question,,,,is there a big difference between IM7 and IM6?

A good bit is marketing. There are different modules materials, and if it's really IM6 and IM7, there is an Emod and sensitivity difference. But, higher is not always better. For example, a few years ago I decided to teach myself to flyfish. I built a rod out of IM6, since it is a bit "softer", more like glass. The flyfishing experts I talked to recommended that the softer action was better for a beginner. So far, it's been good enough.
Some companies talk all kinds on nonsense - IM whatever. There is only so far you can go with different grades of carbon. What makes more of a difference, past a certain point, is how the blank is actually made. For example, when Gary Loomis was in charge of Loomis, they made a big breakthrough. Carbon fiber is laid up on a piece of cloth like material, called a "matrix". Then, the whole "sandwich" is adhered together, rolled tightly around a mandrel, and baked in a big oven.
Well, up until then, this matrix was actually a real light fiberglass cloth. His idea was to use a carbon cloth. This way, the whole sandwich was carbon, no fiberglass at all. This was, I believe (it's been awhile since I could get my hands on Loomis blanks) the GLX. The time I had dinner, along with a group of builders, with Gary, he told us that one of the first things Shimano did when they took over was to change the carbon back to a fiberglass matrix.
A more recent thing has been the use of nanotechnology, using very small particles, nanoparticles, in the adhesive. The new Shimano-Loomis started this, with the NLX (think that is their name). Better performance, but quite a premium. Shortly afterward, St. Croix came out with it in the top of the line. They didn't charge nearly as high a premium. I used to be pretty tight with St. Croix's top engineer and blank designer.

 

[sbroadwell]

They bring a premium because gloomis is owned by Shimano now, and it seems there is a perception that they aren't made as well any more, I couldn't tell you, I own one Loomis inshore salt rod so I've never had a real gloomis.

Yeah, if you can get an older Loomis rod, or a blank, from back when they sold blanks, you've got a pretty good thing!

 

[sbroadwell]

How difficult is it to build a rod? I'm mechanically inclined,but have a bad back,,,,anyone know?

Really not hard at all. I've taught a number of people the basics.

I started building myself sort of by accident. Back around 2000, when I first moved up to the country, I got bored one winter. I had a bunch of old rods, Fenner glass worm rods from the early '70s, things like that. They were in horrible shape - cork coming off, guides bent. I decided to fix them. Bought all the parts from Jann's Netcraft and did. Found all sorts of info on the internet, and that's still a good way to learn.

I then decided to build a rod. Built a spinning rod, it's still used every time I go fishing. I showed it to a guy at work, and he wanted to know if I could build him a couple of rods with Auburn colors. I said, maybe., and bought the stuff for three rods, figuring I might mess one up, lol. I didn't, ended up selling it to another Auburn fan.

I made my first wrapping stand from plans on the Rodboard website, and dryer the epoxy the old way, turning by hand every few minutes, for a long time. Finally got a rod lathe and a couple of dryers, but you really don't need much at all to start building rods.

 

[TroyBoy30]

You lost me at ugly stick. I’d recommend a quality rod not a cheap one.

 

[lampern]

I have ugly Sticks that are 25-30 years old and still fishing with them

Like most things I'm sure quality has declined over the years '

 

[Cmp1]

The old Cardinal I had was by far the most sensitive rod I had,,,,and had a great feel in your hand,,,,I broke the tip landing a 29in Northern,didn't have my net and was on the bank,,,,

 

[NCHillbilly]

If you broke an Ugly Stick, you did something. I have at least one that's been abused for nearly 40 years.

 

[Ruger#3]

I‘ve used Ugly Stiks bait fishing for years, tough rods.
My current heavy casting rod is the Cabelas version, Whoopin Stik.

 

[pbradley]

How difficult is it to build a rod? I'm mechanically inclined,but have a bad back,,,,anyone know?

It isn't difficult. Mostly, you just need a little patience. Mudhole is a great rod building site. Lots of information, plenty of good blanks. You can order a complete kit with everything you need to build a rod.

Lots of how to videos on YouTube, and rodbuilding forums are loaded with good information.

 

[Browning Slayer]

You lost me at ugly stick. I’d recommend a quality rod not a cheap one.

Yeah... they suck and you can’t catch anything with them.. I absolutely hate mine...