North Georgia Deer Study

tree cutter 08

Senior Member
Good point!

I was curious to your thoughts regarding Warwoman. Warwoman has a habitat very similar to Chattahoochee or Swallow Creek, and Warwoman has coyotes, and a ton of hogs. I just started learning Warwoman last year, but there is much much less bear sign there than the other WMA'S I mentioned. But there is much more deer sign. It's very easy to find tracks, trails, rub lines, etc. The deer success rate is very high especially for a mtn wma. You actually jump deer while walking around, etc. Not so much on Chattahoochee and Swallow Creek. The only real difference I've noticed is much less bear sign. Now, I did kill a bear on Warwoman a couple years ago on the bear only hunt but that's because Killer Kyle and I scouted beforehand and found the bear first.

Assuming you agree with my observations and hunter success rate, why does Warwoman have more deer?
Best example we have in the mountains! I started hunting warwoman a few years ago. Killed a couple of bucks, seen well over 50 deer a few hogs and only 1 bear. You won't find much bear sign on warwoman. Warwoman is a prime example of what the mountains are capable of. Habitat is the same as hooch wma for the most part. Some one explain that to me and I'll shut up about the bears being the problem.
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
Perhaps y'all can open up coyote hunting year round on the cnf.

That's probably not going to happen. Unlike state-owned WMAs, USFS land was always designed to be multiple use and I'm sure other users appreciate periods of time without gunfire.
 

AliBubba

Senior Member
I heard that bears are the main reason for the negative impact on deer population in the CONF because of their ability to smell out the fawns and kill them. If this is true, we need to address the bear population.
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
Good point!

I was curious to your thoughts regarding Warwoman. Warwoman has a habitat very similar to Chattahoochee or Swallow Creek, and Warwoman has coyotes, and a ton of hogs. I just started learning Warwoman last year, but there is much much less bear sign there than the other WMA'S I mentioned. But there is much more deer sign. It's very easy to find tracks, trails, rub lines, etc. The deer success rate is very high especially for a mtn wma. You actually jump deer while walking around, etc. Not so much on Chattahoochee and Swallow Creek. The only real difference I've noticed is much less bear sign. Now, I did kill a bear on Warwoman a couple years ago on the bear only hunt but that's because Killer Kyle and I scouted beforehand and found the bear first.

Assuming you agree with my observations and hunter success rate, why does Warwoman have more deer?

Honestly, I would have to defer to our bear biologist on why there are fewer bears there. I wonder with Chattahoochee the proximity of development could be propping up the bear population. Maybe those bears have much more access to food resources from garbage, bird feeders, pet food, etc.?
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
Best example we have in the mountains! I started hunting warwoman a few years ago. Killed a couple of bucks, seen well over 50 deer a few hogs and only 1 bear. You won't find much bear sign on warwoman. Warwoman is a prime example of what the mountains are capable of. Habitat is the same as hooch wma for the most part. Some one explain that to me and I'll shut up about the bears being the problem.

I'm not saying that the problem is exclusively habitat, predator numbers also play a big role. With the research we've had going on though, coyotes are killing more fawns than bears. I just don't think that the deer population will recover just by killing more bears without also improving habitat.
 

ddd-shooter

Senior Member
That's probably not going to happen. Unlike state-owned WMAs, USFS land was always designed to be multiple use and I'm sure other users appreciate periods of time without gunfire.
Not like the coyote hunters are known to gather in large groups and fire volleys...lol

One more reason I hold little hope for the forest. Yes, habitat and coyotes are perhaps the greatest drivers of an entire group of species struggling and an indicator of a landscape SEVERELY out of balance, but, ya know, politics....
I know you’re trying to do all you can Mr. Killmaster, it’s just frustrating to those who grew up in a landscape that was so much more wildlife friendly to see what it is today. Old growth canopied forest with dwindling wildlife.
 

GSPEED

Senior Member
Sounds like we need to form a group whose sole purpose is to lobby for and support improvement of habitat and game populations on CNF, and have a presence at every one of these meetings and commenting periods. The group would have a much greater presence if there were a biologist on board like yourself.

Yall interested?
I’m in. Let me know!
 

across the river

Senior Member

across the river

Senior Member
At least some of the birds watchers are figuring it out. Hunters could have told them this a long time ago.



Link to article this was taken from is below if interested.


Scientists are just now coming to realize how critical young forest is for a host of species, but they are also realizing how little of it remains. Much of today’s early successional habitat comes in the form of accidental scraps, such as utility right-of-way strips where shrubby thickets grow up in the shadows of electricity transmission lines.

But a broad bird conservation coalition—from game-bird-focused groups like the Ruffed Grouse Society, the National Wild Turkey Federation, and the Wildlife Management Institute, to state and federal wildlife agencies, to the classic bird groups like the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and various Audubon chapters—is bringing early successional forest back to the landscape. One of their biggest obstacles, however, is the lingering notion among the general public that logging is bad for birds.


https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/old-growth-is-great-but-heres-why-we-need-new-growth-forests-too/
 

GSPEED

Senior Member
I have no doubt that predators and habitat have hurt our deer here in the mountains but the blanket regulations have done more damage than both of them. Intenional herd reduction may have been needed in some areas but we got the same regulations in the mountains where it’s mostly public land and anyone can hunt. We didn’t have the population to withstand those regulations. When we had a huntable population you would ride down a forest service road and most trucks had North Carolina tags on them as we had more deer than they did and I’m sure they got there money’s worth as they had to pay for out of state license, not that they were doing anything illegal. Along with habitat and predator control we need different regulations for public land and yes I know we don’t have doe days now but it was a little late. The reason the fawn survival is so low is because there’s so few deer, if there was more deer predators wouldn’t have so big of an impact on fawns and even though our habitat is poor it can still handle more than we’ve got now.
 

tree cutter 08

Senior Member
I have no doubt that predators and habitat have hurt our deer here in the mountains but the blanket regulations have done more damage than both of them. Intenional herd reduction may have been needed in some areas but we got the same regulations in the mountains where it’s mostly public land and anyone can hunt. We didn’t have the population to withstand those regulations. When we had a huntable population you would ride down a forest service road and most trucks had North Carolina tags on them as we had more deer than they did and I’m sure they got there money’s worth as they had to pay for out of state license, not that they were doing anything illegal. Along with habitat and predator control we need different regulations for public land and yes I know we don’t have doe days now but it was a little late. The reason the fawn survival is so low is because there’s so few deer, if there was more deer predators wouldn’t have so big of an impact on fawns and even though our habitat is poor it can still handle more than we’ve got now.
Well said! Over harvest was the start and now we are on a predator pit. Timber cutting is not going to happen. We need to figure out how to deal with what we have now. Last few tracks of timber put out for bid didn't even get any interest. Log prices and tough terrain are the blame. That's one of the biggest reasons timber harvest ain't going to happen.
 

buckpasser

Senior Member
I’m gonna help solve the problem right now, and it’s sad I even have to tell you mountain boys this.

This requires a two man team. Wait til it gets good and dry, get dropped off as close to your future honey hole as the road can take you. Hike right to where you want the middle to be. A good strong wind is preferred. Next, strike match. Finally walk back to pickup point. If any of your friends own a Cessna and a ping pong gun, the number of improved acres can go up dramatically in a given amount of time.

I’m just kidding of course...;)
 

Pig Predator

Useles Billy’s Fishel Hog Killer ?
I’m gonna help solve the problem right now, and it’s sad I even have to tell you mountain boys this.

This requires a two man team. Wait til it gets good and dry, get dropped off as close to your future honey hole as the road can take you. Hike right to where you want the middle to be. A good strong wind is preferred. Next, strike match. Finally walk back to pickup point. If any of your friends own a Cessna and a ping pong gun, the number of improved acres can go up dramatically in a given amount of time.

I’m just kidding of course...;)
HAHA! I was gonna ask when we were just gonna slip in and start cuttin trees and burn em next year.
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I have no doubt that predators and habitat have hurt our deer here in the mountains but the blanket regulations have done more damage than both of them. Intenional herd reduction may have been needed in some areas but we got the same regulations in the mountains where it’s mostly public land and anyone can hunt. We didn’t have the population to withstand those regulations. When we had a huntable population you would ride down a forest service road and most trucks had North Carolina tags on them as we had more deer than they did and I’m sure they got there money’s worth as they had to pay for out of state license, not that they were doing anything illegal. Along with habitat and predator control we need different regulations for public land and yes I know we don’t have doe days now but it was a little late. The reason the fawn survival is so low is because there’s so few deer, if there was more deer predators wouldn’t have so big of an impact on fawns and even though our habitat is poor it can still handle more than we’ve got now.
Killing does is not good for the deer population for sure, unless it's overpopulated. Most folks just don't realize how big an impact that their two freezer does a year make when added in with everybody else's who are hunting the same area. We have one doe day here, and I wish we didn't.
 

bigblocktransam

Senior Member
Killing does is not good for the deer population for sure, unless it's overpopulated. Most folks just don't realize how big an impact that their two freezer does a year make when added in with everybody else's who are hunting the same area. We have one doe day here, and I wish we didn't.

Exactly!
 

bigblocktransam

Senior Member
Restocking deer? Naaa, they would rather hand out crop deprivation permits and let folks shoot them at night and waste.
 

elfiii

Admin
Staff member
We have one doe day here, and I wish we didn't.

In my county every day is a doe day. On my property there are no doe days. Some say it does no good on a small tract. I'm doing it anyway.

tenor.gif
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
In my county every day is a doe day. On my property there are no doe days. Some say it does no good on a small tract. I'm doing it anyway.

tenor.gif
On my buddy's 75 acres and my small tract on the SC/GA border, we have not killed a doe in about five years. There is an amazing visible difference in deer population. And shooting small bucks instead of does for freezer meat has had absolutely no impact on numbers or size of bucks that I can see in the same time frame.
 
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