Not to confuse time periods with Native American Tribes?

Thread starter #1
Trying to learn a bit here and was reading not to confuse tribes with time periods like the Woodland or Mississippian Period.
Mostly as it pertains to the Cherokee tribe as that is what I've been reading about. This one article was explaining that the Cherokee had been around longer than what I thought. That perhaps people confuse tribes with periods.
 
Thread starter #2
The example I remember was the Etowah Indian Mounds. Were they built by the Southern Appalachian Mississippians and then used later by the Muscogee Creek and the Cherokee Tribes?
 
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Thread starter #3
1500-1850
Qualla Phase — Qualla is identified with the historic period Cherokee Indians. Because of similarities of artifact styles, house and village structure and burial patterns, it is quite clear that the Pisgah folk are direct ancestors of the Cherokee people. However, it is also likely that other peoples (from east Tennessee and north Georgia) also contributed to the historic period Cherokee culture. (Some sources: Cherokees are a branch of the Iroquois nation.)
https://wsharing.com/WScherokeeTimeline.htm
 
Thread starter #7
Just thought I'd throw this article out there. From the "for what it's worth department."

The official early history of Rabun County, GA, written by a 19th century history professor, stated that Tsali lived on his family farm near present day Dillard, GA and the Little Tennessee River. The writers of “Unto These Hills” greatly altered the biography of Tsali to create a mythological man.

https://apalacheresearch.com/2019/09/15/tsali-the-secret-history-of-a-native-american-martyr/
 
Thread starter #8
This was the link that sparked my interest in this thread. Would it be more correct to say it was built by the Cherokee during the Mississippian period than to say it was built by the Mississippians?
I also read that Nikwasi was built by Southern Appalachian Mississippians long before the Cherokee arrived. That the Cherokee adopted it and it became a part of their legend and religious culture.
Debunking The Origins Of The Ancient Nikwasi Mound
https://www.bpr.org/post/debunking-origins-ancient-nikwasi-mound#stream/0
 
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Thread starter #9
Saw a show recently that said the flat top mound builder tribes were Aztec injuns that left south America during their historic droughts and famine.
I'm reading about some Itza Mayans that left Southern Mexico and sailed to Florida. From there they moved north into what is now Georgia.
The Kenimer Mound in the Nacoochee Valley and the mound near Dillard, Georgia are thought to be of Itza Mayan origin as well as a lot of the others.

https://apalacheresearch.com/2021/0...eorgia-north-carolina-tennessee-and-virginia/
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
This was the link that sparked my interest in this thread. Would it be more correct to say it was built by the Cherokee during the Mississippian period than to say it was built by the Mississippians?
I also read that Nikwasi was built by Southern Appalachian Mississippians long before the Cherokee arrived. That the Cherokee adopted it and it became a part of their legend and religious culture.
Debunking The Origins Of The Ancient Nikwasi Mound
https://www.bpr.org/post/debunking-origins-ancient-nikwasi-mound#stream/0
The Cherokee say they didn't know who built the mounds, and they were here when they rolled up. I'd say the Cherokee arrived here sometime during the late Mississippian period. A lot of the mounds were started in the Woodland period and finished in the Mississippian period.
 
Thread starter #11
Okate, Okute or Okani: The ethnic name means “Water People” in South Florida Itza. Okate or Okani Indians. They were a branch of the Muskogeans that spoke the Itsati (Hitchiti-Creek) language.

Okefenokee is actually derived from a Hitchiti word. Hitchiti was the language spoken by most of the Creek Indians in Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. The original word was oka-fenoke in Itsa-ti (Hitchiti,) which means "water-shaking." The Hitchiti word for "bubbling" is "mole." The Oconi (actually Okani – now Okonee) Indians were one of the most important branches of the Creek Indian Confederacy. They originally spoke Hitchiti and were major players in the mound-building business. Their name means "born of water."

https://www.okefenokee.com/About/Native-Heritage.html
 
Thread starter #12
The Cherokee say they didn't know who built the mounds, and they were here when they rolled up. I'd say the Cherokee arrived here sometime during the late Mississippian period. A lot of the mounds were started in the Woodland period and finished in the Mississippian period.
I read where they said they didn't know who built the Nikwasi Mound in Franklin but that they later used it or adopted it.

One unrelated thing I'm finding interesting is how much mica they used in building some of these mounds. They even had mines and traded with it. They have found it in Ohio.

http://bo-smith.net/SinkHoleNAMicaMining/
 
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NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I read where they said they didn't know who built the Nikwasi Mound in Franklin but that they later used it or adopted it.

One unrelated thing I'm finding interesting is how much mica they used in building some of these mounds. They even had mines and traded with it. They have found it in Ohio.

http://bo-smith.net/SinkHoleNAMicaMining/
There are/were mounds all over western NC. Nikwasi, Cowee, Kituwah, the Garden Creek Complex, and many more. They were all used by the Cherokee and were important in their culture. The mica trade started early on. The people here traded mica to the Hopewell culture of Ohio for copper and pottery. NC mica is found up there, and Hopewellian pottery and other goods are found here.
 
Mississippian is pre-historic (prior to Desoto contact with southeastern tribes). Little is known about the prehistoric people and most of the knowledge comes from archeology since there was not a written language. We don't even know what the mound builders called themselves or what language they spoke. Desoto came thru with scribes who wrote down details of their journey and that began the historic period (post European contact) where from then on details about the early natives were recorded. Not having a written language was a huge detriment to passing on knowledge. Archaeologists finds are sometimes left open to their interpretations which may or may not be factual.
 
Mississippian is pre-historic (prior to Desoto contact with southeastern tribes). Little is known about the prehistoric people and most of the knowledge comes from archeology since there was not a written language. We don't even know what the mound builders called themselves or what language they spoke. Desoto came thru with scribes who wrote down details of their journey and that began the historic period (post European contact) where from then on details about the early natives were recorded. Not having a written language was a huge detriment to passing on knowledge. Archaeologists finds are sometimes left open to their interpretations which may or may not be factual.
The Natchez were the last actively practicing Mississippian culture even into the historic period.
 

Nicodemus

ADMINISTRATOR
Staff member
It would be interesting if he did make it all the way to Mobile. I guess there are some Indians found later that were using Welsh words and construction designs.

If he did make it, perhaps he and his people spread Old World diseases among the native population in the South. That could have been part of the downfall of the Moundbuilders. Who knows...
 
Okate, Okute or Okani: The ethnic name means “Water People” in South Florida Itza. Okate or Okani Indians. They were a branch of the Muskogeans that spoke the Itsati (Hitchiti-Creek) language.

Okefenokee is actually derived from a Hitchiti word. Hitchiti was the language spoken by most of the Creek Indians in Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. The original word was oka-fenoke in Itsa-ti (Hitchiti,) which means "water-shaking." The Hitchiti word for "bubbling" is "mole." The Oconi (actually Okani – now Okonee) Indians were one of the most important branches of the Creek Indian Confederacy. They originally spoke Hitchiti and were major players in the mound-building business. Their name means "born of water."

https://www.okefenokee.com/About/Native-Heritage.html

According to UGA archaeology professor Mark Williams (not to be confused with GA's DNR director) Oconee is the Hitchiti word for "people/place of the skunk".
 

redneck_billcollector

Purveyor Of Fine Spirits
What we call "tribes" and the tribes we know of in the southeast during English expansion into the Americas are relatively new. At the time of the first contact with the Spanish most southeastern natives resided in relatively small "kingdoms" each with their own language which were typically composed of a central "city state" with some surrounding villages near by. The Mississippian Culture was already in its death throws by the time the Spanish set foot in the New World more than likely due to climate change which impacted their agricultural methods. We know the northern hemisphere started experiencing a rather rapid cooling trend by the beginning of the 14th Century, this is the same cooling trend that some historians call the "mini ice age", it led to famine in Europe, along with the disappearance of the "Viking" settlements in Greenland some time in the 15th Century. It was during this time that the Baltic Sea froze for the first time in recorded history. It is also one of the reasons many experts say America is a nation that drinks beer instead of wine because it was impossible to grow good wine grapes in the Americas during this period, this climatic period lasted on into the mid 19th Century. When De Soto took his trip through the southeast, he described the political formation among the natives as mentioned above. He also had a couple of natives from Florida who he was able to communicate with the natives through. As he travelled from one kingdom to the next he would take hostage someone in the "kingdom" who could speak with his natives and then doing the same thing at the next kingdom. He ended up having to go through numerous interpreters by the time he reached north GA. The first natives he encountered that spoke what became known as a Muskogee dialect was the Kingdom of Chiaha on the banks of what is now called the French Broad River in eastern Tennessee, at least from what historians can figure. It is estimated that De Soto's trip through the southeast was responsible for the demise of roughly 90% of our natives due to diseases that the natives had no immunity to. These diseases are what let to the total collapse of the already dying Mississippian Culture. Those diseases also largely depopulated the southeast of natives. The natives largely associated the diseases with their local environs and the few survivors left their "traditional" homelands. One example of this was the Chiaha which by the time of America's Independence lived in southwest GA. By the time of Jamestown, the southeastern natives had already changed their life style and political systems to small towns scattered all over the southeast and practiced slash and burn agriculture and hunting / gathering which we associate with southeastern natives of the early colonial period. In GA there was no large scale tribal identity, that only came when various towns started forming alliances with other towns for trade with the Europeans and creating alliances with the various European powers who continued their political struggles from the continent in the New World, It was because of these alliances that who we call the Creeks formed a loose confederation among some Muskogee speakers, Hitchiti speakers (a form of muskogee) and some who spoke the language of the Shawnee along with a few smaller bands who had their own language (the Yuchi would be an example of those). These loose confederations were involved heavily in the slave trade of natives from Florida and ended up siding with European powers in Queen Anne's War, the Yamasee War and numerous other wars that were fought on the frontier of the Carolinas (Ga was not a colony yet). I imagine the Cherokee have a similar history. I know they often did not side with the British in the various European wars though they did stay neutral in the Yamasee War. They often were at conflict with the Creek Confederation and were often on the loosing side, with the Creek ending up with a lot of land that arguably would have at one time been Cherokee.
 
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