Pastor Ronnie's question.

[gordon 2]

I recall a few yrs ago Pastor Ronnie ask with a tread which I will not hunt for. The question was simply what could be Paul's thorn in his side? You know the thorn he had asked God to remove. Basically if I recall correctly the responses were that, for some who ventured to participate, Paul's thorn for which he pleaded with the Lord to take away was sensed to something physical by some and that it was something spiritual by others. I would like to return to it again without digging up the other treads on this topic. However I'd like to retain the Pastor Ronnie's question as if he was asking it again today.

I had answered that I felt that the "thorn" Paul was stating as his weakness, which was in opposition to his being to Paradise, was most like spiritual. That it was a spiritual problem for him seemed evident by the context. I could not go further than this in my response.

Today many years latter I will answer further. And I will answer that the what the thorn is are in Paul very words and it is something about Paul that we know very well. For me the answer was there all along in plain sight, like when I try to find something in my fridge that is right in front my face but can't see it.

Paul says that his thorn is in his flesh, that it has the effect of keeping him from being conceited. Also He says God tells him that "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” And so is God power perfected in Paul's weakness, which Paul describes as a thorn in his flesh.

So here is my late answer to Pastor Ronnie. The thorn in Paul's flesh is his personality, a personality we know from his resume.


8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. 1That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.…

Do we know Paul to be insulting, delighting in insults, in the hardships he gave others, in the persecutions and difficulties he worked at in his zealous pursuit of Christians, on behalf of his religious cult? Paul says that the thorn was in his flesh. I suggest that Paul had it in him in his natural personality to be difficult, insulting, to persecute fools gladly and to make things difficult to his enemies. These things are in Paul's flesh.

And so by saying, " That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.… he is describing himself or the personality he once naturally had, which he had put to God's service as he once understood it. And he is describing himself now when he encounters others which are yet like he once was. He delights now that God's love is able make him temper his personality so God can work in Paul, in him, to save souls. Paul is well abled to face all sorts of individuals and groups that were once like he was when the thorn in his flesh was not a thorn at all but used in error as an agent of God. Simply because of who Paul is in the flesh, he can understand his persecutors which are anyone rooted in the flesh as he was once. God uses this thorn in Paul, his natural incline to be insulting ( Paul is very intelligent and more knowledgeable that many) and not at all shy with individual and groups and of giving others difficulty, even to the extent of persecution and giving others hardships. This is in the flesh of Paul and is his thorn.

In his recognition of what he can be and in what he has become Paul makes lemon aid of his fleshy weakness, his thorn, by recognizing it in others.

That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.… And so this is why Paul is relevant to all of us. Like Paul our infirmities can be used to God's purpose of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ because our infirmities are not unique to us as odd individual--we all have this Paul's thorn in our flesh.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I go more with the physical side. Historian say that Paul had a severe eye infection that resulted in a constant drainage from his eye. It is recorded that the smell was drastic, much less the drainage running down his face and into his beard constantly. He was in captivity for a lot of this time, and probably had difficulty in trying to keep himself clean.

His eyesight was failing him, and that is one reason he wrote in Gal 6, 'See what large letters I use as I write you'

But your thoughts are interesting. No doubt we all have our weaknesses that we deal on a continuing basis

 

[formula1]

God uses weaknesses in us so that the power of Christ can be displayed in us in that his power helps us overcome and/or keeps us humble.

I don’t know Paul’s. I suspect physical but I do not know. To whom much is given, much is required! Perhaps it allows God to get all of the man’s spirit on service to Him.

 

[gordon 2]

Romans 6: 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness.

 

[Madman]

I would have to the digging again, but I believe Paul’s thorn was the false teachers that were preaching against the true gospel and against him.

 

[gordon 2]

I would have to the digging again, but I believe Paul’s thorn was the false teachers that were preaching against the true gospel and against him.

Isn't it interesting that our interpretations of scripture can be many and different ( varied) and that even we might withhold an interpretation as if despite a common declaration that scripture explains itself, those who would so believe are unable or unwilling to find any specific explanation in some cases.

Again I am going that for Paul the flesh that is with its thorn is a flesh that has the elements of the world yet to it. Paul flesh is not resurrected from the world. He is left with two choices since he has been to heaven as he says. He can put this weakness of the flesh yet redeemed to two uses. He can be in the flesh a slave to sin or cause it to be in service of loving God with all his heart, mind and soul and towards his neighbor as himself. Paul wants to be a super duper saint, but even for him if he was to be fully without sin in imitation of Christ, which he teaches to imitate, his flesh would still remain a thorn for him in the likelihood of a boast even unintentional. Paul still has a sin nature in him and this is his thorn. He has learned to rejoice in this weakness because it is in him God's strength in the world. It is from where Paul can identify with the lost. It provides for him an ability to identify with the Gentiles for example. It is where in Paul God ministers in the real world which is not yet reconciled to God. And it causes Paul to be the Apostle he is-- a very determined and brave one. He's the guy that can say " We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." And in our hearts we understand this from Paul which is foolishness I dare say to ourselves sometimes, let the world solely.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Perhaps it was the shame of his past? I know that I and many others struggle with the past.

 

[Madman]

Isn't it interesting that our interpretations of scripture can be many and different ( varied) and that even we might withhold an interpretation as if despite a common declaration that scripture explains itself, those who would so believe are unable or unwilling to find any specific explanation in some cases.

Again I am going that for Paul the flesh that is with its thorn is a flesh that has the elements of the world yet to it. Paul flesh is not resurrected from the world. He is left with two choices since he has been to heaven as he says. He can put this weakness of the flesh yet redeemed to two uses. He can be in the flesh a slave to sin or cause it to be in service of loving God with all his heart, mind and soul and towards his neighbor as himself. Paul wants to be a super duper saint, but even for him if he was to be fully without sin in imitation of Christ, which he teaches to imitate, his flesh would still remain a thorn for him in the likelihood of a boast even unintentional. Paul still has a sin nature in him and this is his thorn. He has learned to rejoice in this weakness because it is in him God's strength in the world. It is from where Paul can identify with the lost. It provides for him an ability to identify with the Gentiles for example. It is where in Paul God ministers in the real world which is not yet reconciled to God. And it causes Paul to be the Apostle he is-- a very determined and brave one. He's the guy that can say " We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." And in our hearts we understand this from Paul which is foolishness I dare say to ourselves sometimes, let the world solely.

I have no interpretation of my own. The Church teaches it is most likely As spoken in 2 Corinthians 12:10 “That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”
That being persecutions as a Christian, however there have been considerations that Paul had a physical ailment. Holy Scripture does not give as much evidence of physical ailments as persecutions.

We may never know on this side.

 

[gordon 2]

1)for power is made perfect in weakness

Examples of weakness are given:

2)Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints,...

3) These weaknesses are in Paul, for which he must rely on Christ to counter and so to live his faith and to have success in his ministry.

In his weakness he is strong for power is made perfect in weakness. Paul's thorn in the flesh forces him to confront Jesus from the perspective of a man who lives amongst other human beings who are as he is, and not as someone who has the experience of a life changing intimacy with heaven. Paul's testimony is from this his weakness so to check that his testimony of his intimacy with Christ might be view or understood as Paul being conceited or boasting.

In doing so he ministers from a place that is otherwise shameful but which all human beings can identify with. There is only one doctor that can treat his problem and the problem we all have and it is not Paul. It is a problem that forces a saint towards Christ.