Pondering a new rifle, need input….

[1eyefishing]

For quite a while, I've been wishing for a new rifle to play with but couldn't figure out what niche I didn't have filled already.
So I have finally sold myself on something to the order of a .223/5.56 bolt or possibly single shot. And looking for sub MOA performance. Will probably top it with my standard... a Leupold VX3 or above.
I have typically handloaded, (not reloaded) all my hunting rifle ammo. To the point of load development from several different projectile/propellant combos, weighing/trickling every single charge, measuring lands and OAL, and meticulous attention to each individual cartridge.
Years ago, I completed this for all my hunting rifles, loaded up a couple of 100 rounds of the choice ammo for each and haven't loaded in several years. I'm closing in on the end of some my supply and will probably have to retool my bench soon but my time is extremely limited as I have too many hobbies already.
I have handloaded for my 223 contender and have the dies and probably somewhere a bunch of brass. But I have no experience with the 556 and popping crimped primers from cases.
This brings me to my many questions...
If I buy a rifle chambered for 223/556, am I gonna have trouble loading for accuracy with 223 cases?
With the ability to purchase quantities of 556, will that type of ammo likely/possibly be sub MOA in a quality sporter rifle chambered for 223/556? I would think it would be hit-or-miss/trail and error on that. But seems there are AR type rifles out there achieving this level of performance.. Is that being done with mass produced ammo? If so, it would seem feasible in a bolt gun.
I would rather not go with a 223 only and HAVE to handload for it.
Which calls into question the availability of small rifle primers. Are they pretty readily available now?
Help needed... thanks.

 

[menhadenman]

If I buy a rifle chambered for 223/556, am I gonna have trouble loading for accuracy with 223 cases?

Not if it's a good gun - I have gas guns that shoot mixed headstamps sub-MOA. A bolt action would only be better.

With the ability to purchase quantities of 556, will that type of ammo likely/possibly be sub MOA in a quality sporter rifle chambered for 223/556?

If it were me, I'd look for a faster twist barrel in 223 Wylde (like 1/7 or 1/8) so you can shoot heavier projectiles, 69, 75, and 77 gr bullets have been really accurate for me. Some guys like the Hornady Black (I believe that's 223 with 75 gr ELD-Ms) or the Black Hills ammmo with 77 TMKs made by Sierra. You'll quickly find that handloading will be the ticket with factory stuff hovering around $1.50 a shot!

Which calls into question the availability of small rifle primers. Are they pretty readily available now?

You can find them, but will pay dearly... I saw some yesterday at Midway or Mid South (can't remember) for $138/case yesterday. Getting a crack at some is becoming much easier.

If it were me, I'd grab a couple bags of brass (Blue Collar Reloading has 223 right now), some CCI 400s, and a box of heavy bullets to play with. I've found several loads with Varget, BLC-2, CFE223, and XBR that work well. Good luck, a 223 is fun shooting because it's cheap, accurate, and has some zip.

 

[1eyefishing]

So... Googling the 223 wylde, it says that this is a chamber designed to shoot both 223 and 556 (but with a longer throat?)
Other than throat length what is the difference between that and all the ARs that shoot 223 or 556?
I think my ultimate play would be to find a rifle that would shoot mass produced ammo sub MOA without having to reload. I see where the longer throat and tighter twist would be an advantage for shooting heavier bullets (with possible detriment lighter mass produced rounds), but I don't need to. Too many other rifles in my quiver for that...
Definitely not ready to add yet another set of dies to my collection. Or HAVE to reload everything it shoots.

 

[chuckdog]

5.56 and .223 Rem share the same dimensions.

5.56 and .223 Rem share the same brass.

The difference, pressure. 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures. You will need the 5.56 or Wylde chamber to safely shoot the mass produced milspec ammo.

 

[1eyefishing]

5.56 and .223 Rem share the same dimensions.

5.56 and .223 Rem share the same brass.

The difference, pressure. 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures. You will need the 5.56 or Wylde chamber to safely shoot the mass produced milspec ammo.

I understand that, but I did think the 556 case was just slightly longer leading to tight throst in a 223 chamber.
If I have a wylde chamber, I think I'm going to have too much gap between the ogive and the lands for optimal accuracy from 556/223.
I don't think the tighter twist rate would be optimal either.
I guess maybe the whole project will have to be trail and error. Get a 223/556 rifle and see what it will do with run of the mill ammo.

 

[BriarPatch99]

Chuck dog got the answer ...

No real difference in .223/5.56 brass ....just in loads ....and more important the chamber/throat of the gun ....

You can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber all day ....not the other way around ....

You can reload either brass in either 5.56 or .223 loads ....just make sure to mark the boxes so you don't cross them up by shooting in wrong gun .....and I'll go ahead and say I have shot a few 5.56 in a .223 chamber with no ill effects except you know is a more powerful load ....I would not recommend to do ....a bolt action "could" be an exception as there are no gas action to stress...

 

[ChidJ]

No

Yes

Yes

Sorta. If you know your way around a google search, its not difficult.

SAAMI pressure spec, technically. Practically when handloading, almost none

Edit: SAAMI pressure spec of 223 vs NATO spec for 5.56

 

[BriarPatch99]

I understand that, but I did think the 556 case was just slightly longer leading to tight throst in a 223 chamber.
If I have a wylde chamber, I think I'm going to have too much gap between the ogive and the lands for optimal accuracy from 556/223.
I don't think the tighter twist rate would be optimal either.
I guess maybe the whole project will have to be trail and error. Get a 223/556 rifle and see what it will do with run of the mill ammo.

No difference in Brass length ... the Wylde is a compromise ...it will give better accuracy over a 5.56 throat ....but not as good as a .223 throat ....it is a best case scenario if you want to shoot both .223 & 5.56 .....

A 1-8" twist is the best unless you plan to shoot extra long bullets like 90 grain ....got think about magazine length if you plan to use a magazine...

My 1-9" will shoot up to 69 grains ....anything bigger gets wobbly

 

[Jester896]

5.56 isn't a SAAMI spec round is it?

 

[BriarPatch99]

5.56 isn't a SAAMI spec round is it?

No

 

[Nicodemus]

A falling block rifle. Choose your caliber.

 

[Ruger#3]

I own a .223 Wylde, it eats .223/5.56 equally well.

 

[Jester896]

is anyone cambering bolt rifles in 5.56? I just thought it was chambered in an MSR type?

 

[1eyefishing]

I see lots of 223/556 bolt rifles but but hardly anything in stock anywhere.

Single shot not out of the question.

 

[1eyefishing]

Don't really care for a ruger American, Howa, Savage, or Mossburg...

 

[ChidJ]

How 'bout the new-ish CZ 600 series?

 

[BriarPatch99]

Tikki makes a nice one ...but I believe they say only .223 ammo ....

CZ says their rifles shoot both ....including CIP .223 (same pressure as 5.56)

 

[menhadenman]

Tikka is very nice and also shoots 5.56 - supposedly you can call them and they’ll confirm. Henry is making a single shot that handles 5.56/223. Good luck finding one tho.

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/single-shot-rifle/

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/80602/tikka+t3+tactical+223

 

[BriarPatch99]

Tikka is very nice and also shoots 5.56 - supposedly you can call them and they’ll confirm. Henry is making a single shot that handles 5.56/223. Good luck finding one tho.

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/single-shot-rifle/

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/80602/tikka+t3+tactical+223

My bad ....would like to have a Tikki .

 

[menhadenman]

My bad ....would like to have a Tikki .

They’ve got a crazy smooth action and super accurate out of the box. Took me a while but I’m onboard now that I own one!