Presbyterians Approve GAy Clergy POlicy

[Lowjack]

Presbyterian leaders approve gay clergy policy
Patrick Condon, Associated Press Writer – 40 mins ago
MINNEAPOLIS – Presbyterian leaders voted Thursday to allow non-celibate gays in committed relationships to serve as clergy, approving the first of two policy changes that could make their church one of the most gay-friendly major Christian denominations in the U.S.

But the vote isn't a final stamp of approval for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) or its more than 2 million members.

Delegates voted during the church's general assembly in Minneapolis, with 53 percent approving the more liberal policy on gay clergy. A separate vote is expected later Thursday on whether to change the church's definition of marriage from between "a man and a woman" to between "two people."

Under current church policy, Presbyterians are only eligible to become clergy, deacons or elders if they are married or celibate. The new policy would strike references to sexuality altogether in favor of candidates committed to "joyful submission to worship of Christ."

But such changes must be approved by a majority of the church's 173 U.S. presbyteries. The assembly voted two years ago to liberalize the gay clergy policy, but it died last year when 94 of the presbyteries voted against it.

Still, the proposed changes "have the potential to be historic," said Cindy Bolbach, an elder at National Capital Presbytery in Washington and the assembly's elected moderator.

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is ranked the 10th-largest church in the U.S. with 2.8 million members, according to the National Council of Churches' 2010 "Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches." The church's media materials tout 2.1 million members.

Earlier this week, both proposals were approved by assembly committees. The gay clergy change passed 36-16, and the definition of marriage cleared on a vote of 34-18.

"There are still big steps ahead, but I'm feeling better about this than I ever have before," the Rev. Ray Bagnuolo, the openly gay pastor of Janhus Presbyterian Church in New York City, said ahead of the clergy vote.

Some conservative-minded Presbyterians have tried to rally opposition to the changes.

"Blurring or obscuring the clear teaching of God's Word in order to keep in step with secular laws and changing personal morals only confuses our witness and causes innumerable problems for the future," Presbyterians for Renewal, a group opposed to the changes, wrote on its website.

Messages seeking comment from leaders of Presbyterians for Renewal and Presbyterian Coalition, another conservative group in the church, weren't returned Thursday.

"Our church is divided and actions we take today at general assembly can split it even further," Donna Rivett, an elder at the Presbytery of Tropical Florida, said during assembly debate on the gay clergy policy.

A number of major Christian denominations have voted in recent years to allow non-celibate gays to serve as clergy if they are in committed relationships. Among them are the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the U.S. Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ.

"For the Presbyterian Church to stay current and enter the next generation, they really need to let go of this debate," said the Rev. Cindi Love, executive director of SoulForce, a gay Christian group.

Love said she also believed that if the Presbyterians approve the redefinition of marriage, the church would become the largest U.S. Christian denomination to recognize marriage between same-sex couples.

A separate measure, which would also require regional ratification, would remove the threat of punishment for clergy who perform same-sex marriages in states that allow

 

[Israel]

Since they still believe there is a clergy and a laity, how could they have any light as to the Lord's purposes, anyway?

 

[speedcop]

my bible says that in 1 cor.6:9, that the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders will inherit the kingdom of God. Unless you are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord. I take this to mean forgiveness and turn away from that sin. If I'm wrong ,when you meet God and he lets you in you have lost nothing and lived as you desired, If I'm right when you stand before him, then you have lost everything.

 

[ronpasley]

my bible says that in 1 cor.6:9, that the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders will inherit the kingdom of God. Unless you are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord. I take this to mean forgiveness and turn away from that sin. If I'm wrong ,when you meet God and he lets you in you have lost nothing and lived as you desired, If I'm right when you stand before him, then you have lost everything.

Amen brother, this is sad let us pray that there eye's be open.

 

[Ronnie T]

And we wonder why so many unbelievers are confused by church issues.

 

[TTom]

When was the word homosexual first used in the bible and what word was used before it was changed to homosexual?

Answer homosexual was first used in the late 1940's.

Not is says homosexual offenders, what would be homosexual non offenders?

Obviously the wording makes room for that.

Male prostitutes and homosexual offenders are paired in this scripture for good reason. The customers of male prostitutes would be the homosexual offenders.
Temporal context (ie time based) would tell you that male prostitutes were mostly employed by temples for male pagan fertility gods. Thus obviously spending money on a prostitute that works for directly for a pagan god, would make you an offender.

 

[earl]

I have to ask. How did you manage to pair up the Bible ,homosexuals ,and pagan fertility Gods ? Homosexual and fertility don't make sense just for starters.

 

[McHargie]

And we wonder why so many unbelievers are confused by church issues.

because as pastors, elders, deacons, we have failed...

"1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

I think that it's important to note that the context of Paul's charge is to Pastor Timothy...and that the "people" who "will not endure sound teaching" are his parishioners....modern day church goers! The world has never endured sound teaching.

Pastors should be reminded as Timothy, that we serve before and "in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom"

...Pastors are called into service as overseers in Christ's Kingdom, and that is something He takes very seriously, for he purchased it with his own blood...

Grace and Peace
*kyle

 

[Ronnie T]

Absolutely McHargie.

Here's what Paul said to the Elders at Ephesus.

Acts 20:29"I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

We preachers, ministers, elders and pastors have maligned and misused Gods word in grievous ways. We've added to, taken from and misrepresented God's Word for the sake of the denomination and for the sake of church growth, and for the sake of self-immulation. We've decided that the Word doesn't say what it 'seems to say'. It says what "we" says it says.

I have great sympathy for the person who has been exposed to eight or nine of those so-called Biblical experts who teach and preach total opposites.

 

[Mako22]

my bible says that in 1 cor.6:9, that the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders will inherit the kingdom of God. Unless you are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord. I take this to mean forgiveness and turn away from that sin. If I'm wrong ,when you meet God and he lets you in you have lost nothing and lived as you desired, If I'm right when you stand before him, then you have lost everything.

My Bible still calls them what they are which is sodomites.

 

[Lead Poison]

God considers homosexuality a sin, an abomination.

As for any pastor or priest who chooses to falsely teach otherwise, God will deal with them and hold them accountable for misleading the lost.

Period, end of story.

 

[Conrad Fryar]

Also remember the Presbyterian USA is the far left or liberal of the Presbyterian church ,and does not represent the denomination as a whole.
Presbyterian PCA. are some of the most God fearing Churches in the World, and usually set the standard for the Christian Church World wide.

 

[Israel]

While we muse over "what's gone wrong?" or "gee, how did they get going in that direction?" there are things far more basic and intrinsic in the very nature of religions that not only cause them to end up going toward the world, but compel them to embrace it.
It is the very spirit of the world that marks all religions..."let us make a name for ourselves" and often attracts those wishing to be identified after a worldly fashion. "If I join such and such a group, people will know who I am by that affiliation..."
But what does the Lord say?
The world cannot know us, for it does not know him, the world cannot pigeonhole believers anymore than it can "get a handle on the Lord".
We are an alien race, a different species all together than what forms clubs, associations, organizations...and what chooses for itself a name.

Gen 11:4
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

 

[thedeacon]

I think the question of who accepts Gays into their ministry and preisthood is on of Christianities least problems. Look around at what is going on now and see what the problems are.

They are mostly from within and not who is trying to get in. They are multiplied by Ignorance and arrogance. Our pride has made so many of the problems of the Church grow to unmeasurable hights and we worry about the few Gay people that are put in preaching positions.

I don't agree with it but I do think that maybe we just might want to get our priorities on the right track.

 

[Lead Poison]

I think the question of who accepts Gays into their ministry and preisthood is on of Christianities least problems. Look around at what is going on now and see what the problems are.

They are mostly from within and not who is trying to get in. They are multiplied by Ignorance and arrogance. Our pride has made so many of the problems of the Church grow to unmeasurable hights and we worry about the few Gay people that are put in preaching positions.

I don't agree with it but I do think that maybe we just might want to get our priorities on the right track.

There can be NO compromise on the issue of accepting sin. Keep in mind homosexuality is definitely a sin.

Christians must stop being politically correct. Instead, Christians need to follow God's word in the bible.

 

[thedeacon]

I didn't say accept homosexuality I said we need to stop worrying about what other people are doing and start worrying about our own selves and our congregations. We are talking about only a few people in the united states.

I still say the way to defeat something is to protect our own family from it.

 

[earl]

Ain't it funny how the gay issue is a hot button with Christians ? If I read the bible correctly , ALL sins except one are equal , and the one is not homosexuals . If ya'll gave equal time to all sins like the bible says , you would probably have to take the mirrors out of you ''glass '' houses .