( Rom. 8:27-30 ) Foreordination And Predestination

IF God is all-knowing and He is all-powerful,
then, why would He not fully know how His entire Creation would unfold,
including, who would be 'the Elect?'
What are you trying to do Joe? Ignore the thousands of lifetimes of work by men trying to convince themselves and others that God is not all-knowing and all-powerful. Besides, with your kind of thinking, what will we do with words like but, and however, and yet, and except.
 

Israel

Senior Member
IF God is all-knowing and He is all-powerful,
then, why would He not fully know how His entire Creation would unfold,
including, who would be 'the Elect?'
Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
 
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Thread starter #23
1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery
meaning, The wisdom of God the gospel of Jesus Christ, which was hidden up to the time of its revelation and which God ordained before this age for us. None of the rulers of this world knew this revelation . if they had know it they would not have crucified the Lord. Prophets searched diligently to understand what they prophesied about it, and even angels themselves desired to comprehend it ( 1 Pet. 1:10-13 ). Such mystery is now made clear through the preaching of the apostles and the revelation of the Scriptures of the N.T. ( Rom. 1:1-5; 16:25, 26; 1 Cor. 2:9-16; Gal. 1:12, 16; Eph. 3:1-8; Heb. 8:6; 2 Pet. 3:16 ). See Rom. 11:25.

even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
meaning, pre-determine ( Rom. 8:29 ). God simply determined to bring about His plan for the good of all who would believe.

"a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth: ( 2 Tim. 2:15 ).
 
Thread starter #24
What are you trying to do Joe? Ignore the thousands of lifetimes of work by men trying to convince themselves and others that God is not all-knowing and all-powerful. Besides, with your kind of thinking, what will we do with words like but, and however, and yet, and except.
Why would The LORD God ask these questions if he already knew ?

3:9 Where art thou?
3:11 Who told thee that thou wast naked?
Hast thou eaten of the tree wherefore I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
3:13 What is this that thou hast done?

If any person does not know something then they have to ask to find it out right?

Genesis 3.8-13.
3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam and said unto him, Where art thou?

3:10 And he said. I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked: and I hid my self.

3:11 And he said who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

3:12 And the man said. The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman. What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said. The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
 
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Why would The LORD God ask these questions if he already knew ?

3:9 Where art thou?
3:11 Who told thee that thou wast naked?
Hast thou eaten of the tree wherefore I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
3:13 What is this that thou hast done?

If any person does not know something then they have to ask to find it out right?

Genesis 3.8-13.
3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam and said unto him, Where art thou?

3:10 And he said. I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked: and I hid my self.

3:11 And he said who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

3:12 And the man said. The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman. What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said. The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Why would The LORD God ask these questions if he already knew ?
Ask Him.
 

Israel

Senior Member
When I ask my great grand..."How much is 2+14?"...

or

When Jesus asks "And why do you behold the mote in your brother's eye..."

I have learned it is not because He does not know...but I must learn...why do I do that?
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
When one begins to see the "why" of that one may begin to understand how that the whole of the world; religious, secular, political, philosophical, economical, psychological... rises as one yeasty mass in all opposition...precisely, and only to the truth that He is...the very Son of God. The world is all of reaction.

There is a separation necessary that no man can accomplish of, or for, himself.

A fish has little understanding of water while in it, thinking it is all there is.
Let him flop around a while on the banks where he cannot live unless life is given him, and he may begin to understand.

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
They are taught He was not.
When one begins to see the "why" of that
Very true. Only thing is the “why” is still dependent upon what “they are taught”
 

Spotlite

Senior Member
Why would The LORD God ask these questions if he already knew ?

3:9 Where art thou?
3:11 Who told thee that thou wast naked?
Hast thou eaten of the tree wherefore I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
3:13 What is this that thou hast done?

If any person does not know something then they have to ask to find it out right?

Genesis 3.8-13.
3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam and said unto him, Where art thou?

3:10 And he said. I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked: and I hid my self.

3:11 And he said who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

3:12 And the man said. The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman. What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said. The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
As Israel basically said - the math teacher doesn’t ask the student what 2 + 2 equals because the teacher doesn’t know the answer.

There’s a lesson to be taught to the student.
 
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Have you ever played hide and seek with tiny little kids who don’t know how to hide very well? You still say, “Where are you?” even though you can clearly see them. The situation you describe is the same. Asking a question does not prove that you didn’t know the answer before you asked it.
 
IF God is all-knowing and He is all-powerful,
then, why would He not fully know how His entire Creation would unfold,
including, who would be 'the Elect?'
I've heard some ask since God does know this, why does he allow the non-elect to be born? My answer as gathered from scripture is to show his intended wrath and power.
 

RegularJoe

Senior Member
Why would The LORD God ask these questions if he already knew?....
Yeah Banjo, i have, do and still wonder the same.
In the face of my un-all-knowing wondering ...
where i have gotten to, for me, is
i am willing to accept that it is not something i will ever mortally understand;
while i am okay with accepting that God has to be all-knowing and all-powerful
or He simply is not God,
combined with the immense quantity of times throughout The Bible that His qualities of being all-knowing + all-powerful are reported, et.al.
Older i get & the more i learn about my perception(s) of reality,
the more issues/topics i find that i never will be able to fully mortally comprehend.
i tell myself ...
if i could understand it all,
then, i too, would be all-knowing.
 
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RegularJoe

Senior Member
I've heard some ask since God does know this, why does he allow the non-elect to be born? My answer as gathered from scripture is to show his intended wrath and power.
Am replying to offer back, Art, that i think your question,
that you point out is asked,
is a mighty worthy one
& is a question i have many times wondered, as well +
to, incidentally say, i do not ever expect to mortally know the answer ....
Paul has always stirred my thinking even further on this matter
when in Romans 9 he pens,
" 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory... " (NIV)
This Romans Scripture is probably some of the Scripture to which you are referring, as well?
 

Madman

Senior Member
And this is what is always comes down to with those who have no ancient place to go for proper interpretation.

Verse vs. Versus
 
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