Starting bird hunting questions

[Etoncathunter]

I assume this would be the place to come for this info, or to get pointed in the right direction. Until starting dove hunting last year I've never hunted for anything other than deer/bear and squirrels. I've always been fascinated by bird hunting and always wanted to try hunting pheasant & other upland birds. My son has finally gotten old enough (10) for a real shotgun and is learning to use it and I'm thinking I'd like for us to my a trip either fall of next year (2020) or the next (2021) depending on budget and schedule. I know practically nothing about the subject though. So I figure to start early with many questions.

1: Outside of the canned and preserve hunts I assume the best or only places to go are in the west? North & South Dakota, Wyoming, and I dunno????

2: Is it possible to PRODUCTIVELY hunt without a set of dogs? Obviously I don’t have a bird dog, buying and training a whole new dog just to try out the sport, or to only use every couple years when we can afford to go isn't realistic.

3: Is public land really as accessible out there like they make it seem, or are you pretty much required drop several grand for an outfitter?

4: Is there a better time of the season to plan on, early vs late, or anything?

5: My son is getting a new pump 20 for Christmas. I assume with proper choke and shot size that is adequate? After he gets it I plan on us regularly shooting sporting clays . Is there any particular stands/ scenarios that would help more than others to get ready?

6: Is there any site or book or something that is the equivalent to an “Idiots guide to upland birds" or a good quality forum like we have here at GoN?

Thanks for all y'all's help & sorry for having so many questions.

 

[Beagles N Boykins]

Bird hunting is addictive and can be expensive. In Ga it’s either plantation or purchase birds and set out. We hunt GSPs with a Boykin to flush and set birds out on land we have access to. I’ve never set birds out in public land simply because I’m not sure if it’s legal. Plantation hunting doesn’t have to be super expensive Pope plantation in Washington is a good place to start and very affordable if you have your own dog. Yes I’d say even with set birds I’d say you need a dog. Shooting a sporting clays course is what we do to warm up. Shoot me a PM if you have anymore questions. I’m not an expert but I’ve figured out how to be a bird hunter on a budget.

 

[Etoncathunter]

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

 

[coachdoug87]

I agree that you can have fun without spending a lot of money. As far as releasing
On public land,some Wmas have dog training areas where it is legal to release
Quail. The ones with these areas are listed in the hunting regulations.

 

[ropinrob]

1: Outside of the canned and preserve hunts I assume the best or only places to go are in the west? North & South Dakota, Wyoming, and I dunno????
You don't have to go out west to hunt wild birds their are still birds here in the south and on public land. Just be ready to do a lot of walking.

2: Is it possible to PRODUCTIVELY hunt without a set of dogs? Obviously I don’t have a bird dog, buying and training a whole new dog just to try out the sport, or to only use every couple years when we can afford to go isn't realistic.
Having a dog is the hole joy of bird hunting but not necessary. It will definitely be more productive to have a dog.

3: Is public land really as accessible out there like they make it seem, or are you pretty much required drop several grand for an outfitter? Their is plenty of public land out their you just have to do your homework to find it then burn the leather off some boots to find the birds.

4: Is there a better time of the season to plan on, early vs late, or anything?
When ever you have the time to go.

5: My son is getting a new pump 20 for Christmas. I assume with proper choke and shot size that is adequate? After he gets it I plan on us regularly shooting sporting clays . Is there any particular stands/ scenarios that would help more than others to get ready? 20 gauge is fine. That's what I shoot most of the time. For most upland birds with a dog improved choke and 71/2 shot. works fine. 5's or 6's for pheasants if your going west

6: Is there any site or book or something that is the equivalent to an “Idiots guide to upland birds" or a good quality forum like we have here at GoN? Best thing to do is find some one to go with but get on google and do some research. You can also watch videos. The flush and Bird dogs afield are two that come to mind.

 

[trad bow]

Upland journal is a good one. Getting a pup and joining a pointing dog training group will give you a quick learning curve and access to some hunters willing to carry you hunting.

 

[Beagles N Boykins]

i started as a boy with my granddads dogs. Then lost interest once local birds went away. When a friend got a hunting GSP I spent a couple of years looking for a flushing dog. Ended up with a Boykin. Reach out to Blaine Tarneki(waterswat on GON). with Hudson River retrievers he’ll let you come by to check out his operation. Go to field trials and hit a few of the smaller plantations. If you get hooked you’ll get a dog or two. Training is just a matter of patience and time or money. I went with patience and time and love the results. I’m biased but a Boykin does all upland and waterfowl.

 

[Etoncathunter]

Thank y'all, y'all have given me a lot to think about.

 

[cohuttahunter]

If you are interested in going out west, blue (dusky) grouse are very available and public land is ample. I try to go big game hunting in Colorado or Wyoming every couple of years and I always take a shotgun and leave a couple of days for jump shooting them. I've also taken my family for vacation, rented a cabin close to national forest land, and bird hunted and fished and had a blast. Colorado is as close as North or South Dakota, Wyoming not much farther. If you want to trade info by pm I'll tell you what I know about it for your experience getting started dove hunting, I have no experience doing that but would like to know how to get started, I've been collecting points for some of the dove quota hunts but don't really know what to do with them except apply for a hunt and show up at one, I'm nervous about the protocol and don't know anyone that has been to one.

 

[The Donk]

I have a cousin out in Western Colorado and hunted pheasants with him on several occasions with no dogs and a combo of private and public land. These were my only upland hunting experiences and we just stomped out as much cover as possible and had a ton of fun shooting pheasants and prairie chickens.
I know have a GSP and am training her up the best I can. You don't need dogs to target upland birds, but I think once you get dogs, its hard to imagine not hunting over them if that makes sense.

 

[cohuttahunter]

I agree, hunting over a dog, especially one you have trained yourself, is one of the highlights of sport.

 

[nrh0011]

You'll find more birds and probably be more productive with a dog, but you can absolutely do it without one. Plenty of public land in western states worth hunting too. Like said above, find you a bird hunting club and you'll more than likely meet people more than willing to have you tag along. Keep us posted

 

[drahthaar]

1. there are a lot more wild birds and public land the further west you go. But you can find both a little closer, Kansas/Iowa/Nebraska. Check out arizona or new mexico - the season runs through Feb this year. Its very cheap to stay out there, but a long drive - and endless sections of public land. More on dog vs not below, but you would want a dog to hunt mearns quail but could very easily chase blue quail and montezuma without a pup

2. This depends on species and terrian. For the desert quail you could do two of the three above. You could hunt bobwhite without, but its hard. You can definitely hunt pheasant without. You might also have luck since the kid is so young - much easier to find a family with a truck full of dogs to let you tag along with a first time kid hunter.

Trying to avoid repeat advice from above, but the true joy of this game is hunting over your dog.

3. Public land is really that accessible. The further west you go to more you find. You should only get an outfitter if you want to pay for his dog's service.

4. Season depends really on where and what you are chasing. A foot of snow makes pheasants easier to hunt but sharptails disappear, and the kid may have trouble walking in that. Again, check out southwest quail.

5. 20g is adequate for most any bird. The one thing I would consider is getting a gun that can hold 3" shells. it will weigh just a bit more but allow him to shoot some big loads for pheasant and ducks when he grows up a little.

6. Haven't found a good one, hopefully someone here can advise me too.

 

[Etoncathunter]

5. 20g is adequate for most any bird. The one thing I would consider is getting a gun that can hold 3" shells. it will weigh just a bit more but allow him to shoot some big loads for pheasant and ducks when he grows up a little.

We're looking at getting him the mossberg 500 super bantam it's supposed to sized for up to 3" shells. That, its ability to grow with him, and the fact it fits our budget make it our best choice.

 

[nrh0011]

6. Ben O Williams is a revered american upland hunter and writer. I would highly recommend his book "Hunting The Quails of North America". I found him via the project upland podcast on episode #65, which is well worth the listen. He is a brittany breeder/trainer, and arguably the first person to ever hunt grouse for sport in Wyoming.

https://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Quails-North-America-Williams/dp/1572233079

Link to podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0FNIsDeStADmfRTng33RdE?si=eI7YAmBjQ4ugNOuoXPy-Iw