Teachers vs teaching...

jollyroger

Senior Member
What if nurses and doctors said we won’t help heal the sick if their demands aren’t met....
Teachers don't take an oath, I don't think it's in the same category.

Maybe they should, set the bar really high.

A child can still be educated even without teachers and public schools.

But I see what you're saying, it would be catastrophic.
 
Thread starter #3

hoytman308

Senior Member
Just because some one takes an “oath” doesn’t mean they have to uphold their words or the “oath”. It’s not just teachers brother... it takes all of us to make this great country function. I don’t see this country as a people who sit merely on the side lines and demand things. We innovate and make things happen. If we were not like that I would agree with the teachers but I’m sorry I don’t.
 
What if nurses and doctors said we won’t help heal the sick if their demands aren’t met....
I probably have a different opinion than most on this but for now we still live in a free country. If you demand a raise or change at work or you are going to quit that’s ultimately a choice you get to make. They have that same right to.
 

jollyroger

Senior Member
I get what hoytman is saying though, there is a sense of entitlement.

A teacher friend of mine also said that many teachers haven't even mastered the subjects they are teaching.

I think until you can prove mastery in your subject than maybe you shouldn't be teaching, or maybe you should teach at an apprentice level.

It will separate the wheat from the chaff real quick.

The ones who have the calling to teach will shine, and will teach because of the time they invested in mastery; they should also be compensated for this effort too.

Going back to what I said about setting the bar higher might take care of some of this.
 
Thread starter #6

hoytman308

Senior Member
I probably have a different opinion than most on this but for now we still live in a free country. If you demand a raise or change at work or you are going to quit that’s ultimately a choice you get to make. They have that same right to.
Couldn’t agree more but if that’s their demands then we should demand our school tax money back and let them figure out how they will pay for their mortgages or families’ needs. My child is just as important to me as their health is to them but we can’t stick our heads in the sand. Children across the board need that structure social interaction etc. Their lives don’t stop because and adult is scared. I can guarantee you those same teachers shop/ been on vacation etc during this time. Maybe not all but I’m sure there are some.
 

cramer

Senior Member
If teachers don't have legitimate health concerns yet don't want to teach face to face, simply replace them with an automated lessons program.
save the tax payers a lot of money in payroll and benefits.
Heck an automated lesson with a computerized vocal tract would not ever run the risk of offending anyone .
Then employ the former teachers as social workers to replace the bad policeman.
Maybe they could just text the subjects and not interact face to face with suspect folks.
 

back_woods

Senior Member
Most public schools are more aimed at training kids to fit a certain agenda, not educating them. There is a difference
 
Couldn’t agree more but if that’s their demands then we should demand our school tax money back and let them figure out how they will pay for their mortgages or families’ needs. My child is just as important to me as their health is to them but we can’t stick our heads in the sand. Children across the board need that structure social interaction etc. Their lives don’t stop because and adult is scared. I can guarantee you those same teachers shop/ been on vacation etc during this time. Maybe not all but I’m sure there are some.
I'm not so sure about that "need structured social interaction" of which you speak.
That word "need" bothers me. Too many determined people have risen above circumstances without that "need" being gratified or even recognized.
In the jungle of urban blight, kids might be better off(?) without that interaction in a classroom.
Social interaction has the flavoring of liberalism in it somewhere....just my opinion.
I am coming at it from a small town USA point of view, though. There's a world of difference, overall, between that and the failed democrat war zones of the big cities.
Strange times in which we live.
Liberalism Offends Me #2.JPG
 
I'm not so sure about that "need structured social interaction" of which you speak.
That word "need" bothers me. Too many determined people have risen above circumstances without that "need" being gratified or even recognized.
We home schooled our children and were able to provide plenty of social interaction through sports, outsourced coursework, recreation, church, youth groups, and a variety of social events. The main responsibility for providing for children's social needs belongs to the parents and NOT to the government. Parents may reasonably delegate some things to outside parties (church, sports teams, educational providers, etc.) but the responsibility to see that the children's needs are being met still belongs to the parents.

The lack of socialization opportunities afforded by regular attendance of brick and mortar schools was not a big hindrance to the life and ministries of Jesus or the Apostles Peter, James, and John. It did not impede the success of Abraham Lincoln or a long list of accomplished Americans including Ansel Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Louisa May Alcott, Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Franklin Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, Michelle Kwan, Tim Tebow, Woodrow Wilson, or Laura Ingalls Wilder. Reduced socialization did not obstruct accomplishments of Europeans including Queen Elizabeth II, Ernst Mach, Erwin Schrodinger, C.S. Lewis, and Wolfgang Mozart.
 
We home schooled our children and were able to provide plenty of social interaction through sports, outsourced coursework, recreation, church, youth groups, and a variety of social events. The main responsibility for providing for children's social needs belongs to the parents and NOT to the government. Parents may reasonably delegate some things to outside parties (church, sports teams, educational providers, etc.) but the responsibility to see that the children's needs are being met still belongs to the parents.
The lack of socialization opportunities afforded by regular attendance of brick and mortar schools was not a big hindrance to the life and ministries of Jesus or the Apostles Peter, James, and John. It did not impede the success of Abraham Lincoln or a long list of accomplished Americans including Ansel Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Louisa May Alcott, Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Franklin Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, Michelle Kwan, Tim Tebow, Woodrow Wilson, or Laura Ingalls Wilder. Reduced socialization did not obstruct accomplishments of Europeans including Queen Elizabeth II, Ernst Mach, Erwin Schrodinger, C.S. Lewis, and Wolfgang Mozart.
Congratulations to you "my brother from another mother"..!!
Yours is a brilliant and well composed epistle regarding the topic of discussion here.
I salute you....(and I like your cap, by the way)
A person like C.S.Lewis, who without a "road to Damascus experience", could write something as insightful as the "Screwtape Letters" is the personification of what you speak.
And who could look at the works of Ansel Adams and not catch their breath at the profundity expressed through his ability "to see".
(y)(y)(y)
 
Couldn’t agree more but if that’s their demands then we should demand our school tax money back and let them figure out how they will pay for their mortgages or families’ needs. My child is just as important to me as their health is to them but we can’t stick our heads in the sand. Children across the board need that structure social interaction etc. Their lives don’t stop because and adult is scared. I can guarantee you those same teachers shop/ been on vacation etc during this time. Maybe not all but I’m sure there are some.
My answer to that is go ahead and replace them. The problem is I don’t think We have enough people who want to be teachers to replace them. I’m 50-50 on thinking we should get reimbursed on our school tax money. Ya they didn’t work and kids didn’t go to school but if they don’t get paid they are going to draw unemployment anyway so regardless you will pay them. The real loser of the deal is parents having to miss work to watch their kids or now paying for daycare to watch them instead sending them to school.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
Doctors and nurse knew when they went to school and figured out their future career path that they would be dealing with sick people, diseases, and the likes there of. Just as those joining the military do so knowing that they can go to war and be shot at or killed. Teachers went into their careers with the intent to teach, with many a love of children and teaching them. Would a soldier complain if he had to be stuck in a classroom full of 6 year olds for a year, doctors and nurses being out in a war zone with a gun to fight would not be happy. Therefore why would a teacher be happy about being thrown in a classroom of 15 kids where each one could be a ticking time bomb of covid? Especially when many parents will give their children a tylenol to lower a fever, then since they do not have a fever they are allowed to come to school. then around 10 or 11 in the morning the fever is back and all have the potential to catch whatever they have. Talking from experience as my wife was made sick once or twice like this as well as other kids in her class. We are fixing to throw not only our kids but our teachers into a lab (classroom) as lab rats and see which ones find their way out. So 15 kids, assuming they have 2 parents, that is 45 people the teacher can contract from. But wait, if they both have 2 sets of grandparents that they get to see, that is 105 that the teacher can contract from. Not even counting the other staff. All I can do is keep my faith and trust in God. I have elderly parents that require my assistance. Just takes one of those 105 to pass it to a kid that is confined in my wife's classroom for 6 hours to give it to her to bring home to me then my elderly parents are screwed for at least 2 weeks.
 

drhunter1

Senior Member
Teachers don't take an oath, I don't think it's in the same category.

Maybe they should, set the bar really high.

A child can still be educated even without teachers and public schools.

But I see what you're saying, it would be catastrophic.
Teachers sign a contract every year.
 
Doctors and nurse knew when they went to school and figured out their future career path that they would be dealing with sick people, diseases, and the likes there of. Just as those joining the military do so knowing that they can go to war and be shot at or killed. Teachers went into their careers with the intent to teach, with many a love of children and teaching them. Would a soldier complain if he had to be stuck in a classroom full of 6 year olds for a year, doctors and nurses being out in a war zone with a gun to fight would not be happy. Therefore why would a teacher be happy about being thrown in a classroom of 15 kids where each one could be a ticking time bomb of covid? Especially when many parents will give their children a tylenol to lower a fever, then since they do not have a fever they are allowed to come to school. then around 10 or 11 in the morning the fever is back and all have the potential to catch whatever they have. Talking from experience as my wife was made sick once or twice like this as well as other kids in her class. We are fixing to throw not only our kids but our teachers into a lab (classroom) as lab rats and see which ones find their way out. So 15 kids, assuming they have 2 parents, that is 45 people the teacher can contract from. But wait, if they both have 2 sets of grandparents that they get to see, that is 105 that the teacher can contract from. Not even counting the other staff. All I can do is keep my faith and trust in God. I have elderly parents that require my assistance. Just takes one of those 105 to pass it to a kid that is confined in my wife's classroom for 6 hours to give it to her to bring home to me then my elderly parents are screwed for at least 2 weeks.
I've known my whole career as a teacher that children come to school sick and the odds of them making me sick is significant. It was one of the risks I accepted in light of the calling. I've learn to reduce the risks, but I do get sick a lot more often when I have close classroom contact with lots of students than when I do not.

COVID-19 does not create a right for teachers to keep collecting paychecks if they use a higher risk of getting sick as an excuse not to fulfill job requirements. Any individual is free to find another career if they can't stand the heat.
 
I agree that there is a problem with what is being taught and with the skills utilized by primary and secondary teachers*. I don't really think the problem is the individuals who choose to teach. I see the problem as a complicated mix of issues.

First, the federal Dept. of Education is clearly a disaster, it needs to be shut down!

Then there are the unions working to "protect" bad teachers while at the same time rewarding union leaders with giant perks. Unions have absolutely no place anywhere tax dollars are paying salaries!

There are far too many of those tax dollars being thrown at schools. The USA spends more per student that any other nation in the world and the results are piteous.

We need communities to take over local control of schools, control the curriculum, control the budget, control the administrators, and control the teachers.

These union teachers who demand that they get "protection" or they won't teach, should be given their option two! Fire them and move on.

* Primary and secondary school teachers are generally better than the crowds of socialist indroctronators who populate our colleges and universities in the guise of professors!
 

cramer

Senior Member
My answer to that is go ahead and replace them. The problem is I don’t think We have enough people who want to be teachers to replace them. I’m 50-50 on thinking we should get reimbursed on our school tax money. Ya they didn’t work and kids didn’t go to school but if they don’t get paid they are going to draw unemployment anyway so regardless you will pay them. The real loser of the deal is parents having to miss work to watch their kids or now paying for daycare to watch them instead sending them to school.
I bet there are a lot of police officers who would like to trade places right now and many may have the qualifications .
All they would have to do is say they have been trying to find themselves for x years, list the protests they have attended and they are guaranteed an interview .
 
Thread starter #19
I'm not so sure about that "need structured social interaction" of which you speak.
That word "need" bothers me. Too many determined people have risen above circumstances without that "need" being gratified or even recognized.
In the jungle of urban blight, kids might be better off(?) without that interaction in a classroom.
Social interaction has the flavoring of liberalism in it somewhere....just my opinion.
I am coming at it from a small town USA point of view, though. There's a world of difference, overall, between that and the failed democrat war zones of the big cities.
Strange times in which we live.
View attachment 1030574
Yessir I can see where you would say that but in the same breath being put on point having to deal with all sorts of people only comes from face to face interaction. Lots of kids these days are socially awkward because they hide behind their phones or games. It’s almost made them blind to reality. Not all kids but technology has definitely got a tight grip on more of them than parents should have let it.
 
Thread starter #20
Doctors and nurse knew when they went to school and figured out their future career path that they would be dealing with sick people, diseases, and the likes there of. Just as those joining the military do so knowing that they can go to war and be shot at or killed. Teachers went into their careers with the intent to teach, with many a love of children and teaching them. Would a soldier complain if he had to be stuck in a classroom full of 6 year olds for a year, doctors and nurses being out in a war zone with a gun to fight would not be happy. Therefore why would a teacher be happy about being thrown in a classroom of 15 kids where each one could be a ticking time bomb of covid? Especially when many parents will give their children a tylenol to lower a fever, then since they do not have a fever they are allowed to come to school. then around 10 or 11 in the morning the fever is back and all have the potential to catch whatever they have. Talking from experience as my wife was made sick once or twice like this as well as other kids in her class. We are fixing to throw not only our kids but our teachers into a lab (classroom) as lab rats and see which ones find their way out. So 15 kids, assuming they have 2 parents, that is 45 people the teacher can contract from. But wait, if they both have 2 sets of grandparents that they get to see, that is 105 that the teacher can contract from. Not even counting the other staff. All I can do is keep my faith and trust in God. I have elderly parents that require my assistance. Just takes one of those 105 to pass it to a kid that is confined in my wife's classroom for 6 hours to give it to her to bring home to me then my elderly parents are screwed for at least 2 weeks.
I’ve never known running from something makes it ok. I believe if there is something that scares you, you should run straight at it. You can’t have an immune system by using hand sanitizer. But I also agree with everything you said about the elderly and such. But if the answer is to just wait until there is a vaccine which mind you the flu kills people including kids every year and we have a vaccine but kids still go to school during the winter months. There has to be a means to an end some how soon!! The kids will loose mentality for the lack of education whether it’s public, private, or home school. They cannot be taught that when things get tough the government will fix it for you. Not a good lesson!!
 
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