Testimony

[gordon 2]

"And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. 25 Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

What is the usefulness of testimony in the assembly? How does it encourage? What is the reasoning behind it?

 

[gordon 2]

So the usefulness of testimony is that someone realizes it is true because God only shows them it is true.


So the usefulness of testimony is to show that God is teaching the listener regards the things of God?

So lets say someone in a congregation listens to someone else's testimony and does not know if it is true or a fabrication... what use is the testimony? Any? Is it some judgement on their own heart perhaps?

For example when I read the story of Zacchaeus from the perspective of Zacchaeus giving the testimony what does it say about me? I am drawn in or I am not perhaps. At what level do I understand and how do I know there are other levels to understand?

How do I know that the person giving the testimony is an extrovert and the testimony is easy and usual for them. Or that the person is an introvert an the testimony is especially difficult and rare for them? Etc.

It just occurred to me to study the many times Paul gave his testimony to his listeners. I will study this perhaps?

 

[gordon 2]

"that they themselves are bearers of testimony of Jesus Christ. Not merely...events. And I suppose that is something of a difference."

"there's only one place a man can go to be established."
--------------------------------------
Well now! I have truly learned something I did not know previously.

a) A testimony is a testimony of Jesus Christ, not exactly the bearer's testimony. That is to say Jesus testifies through the bearer.


( I never looked at it this way. I think this is wise indeed, what you say.)

b) if someone has issues or does not understand a testimony there is only one place they can go,

( and again especially that a testimony is really the testimony of Christ himself.)

Why are people here getting very wise? Is it me or you? Or something completely different?

Thank you Israel. You have opened a door for me I did not know was there. I would hope there would be more of these.

Thank you brother. Much appreciated. How can I repay you ?

 

[Israel]

I am only beginning to appreciate what you share with me.
Or better? What we have been given to share in...together.

As God is not willing to crush me under such weight of Glory...He wisely ministers.

Bless you brother and all with you.

 

[gordon 2]

Can I be so bold as to ask you to testify how God has ministered his love and the power of his love to you outside of the Glory? To love your enemy for example is it a common sense, a commandment, or something(s) else?

Or let me be crude: What is you understanding of God's love outside of his Glory, since you have not been "crushed by it"in the first place. I can think of no better truth teller to explain it. Have you been "crushed" at all on love? In what way? Or is it a mimic of Jesus Christ perhaps? as in " so love the world"...

Please let us continue... My " crushing" has come from the Glory as some know. What crushes (d) you?(if anything) that you would be willing to testify on, especially on the regards to your understanding and indeed you experience of God's love, it'[s power perhaps....?

You see for me what I was given on love was in the Glory and I have found so far that all words pale, including sacred words or even the list that some of the great would make to define love. Scripture for me cannot be the final word even if I wanted it to, nor could the great dissertations of all our great church fathers and commentators, which at best I fear that is all I could be an other commentator of the subject itself in my testimony.

If you don't know what I mean, throw a dart at my words and proceed anyway u deem fitted, please. ( Or maybe someone else might be inclined...) I'd like to know... your witness on or of love especially in the context of our faith, outside of the Glory, but be mostly as you like it.

PS. You are a balm to some anxiety I have. Please continue and I might explain this latter.

 

[StriperAddict]

His glory, as in His personhood, His being?
Wouldn't love and His glory be synonymous?

If my question is interfering then also please disregard. No harm intended.

 

[gordon 2]

His glory, as in His personhood, His being?
Wouldn't love and His glory be synonymous?

If my question is interfering then also please disregard. No harm intended.

It is not interfering. Perhaps your's is a good question. I say this because when Jesus was walking around telling folk to get down from their tree and went home with them, or the woman at the well, or... take you pick... people changed in a direction which was definitely loving....

However have I heard testimonies that stress other things than a "crushing" or "intensity" so to be all that is the very rock which is love, the very fact, the very thing itself, bliss and wisdom, all life no death, that is said God'[s love and informed, thought, driven in, in very little time, as in a big download of say seven days? I don'[t mean a miracle, I mean cash on the barrel love.

Hope you know what I mean. So brother Striper if we can agree that a testimony is not of the bearer, but of Christ, where does someone who has love revealed from other ministers get to the experience of the power of God's love?

And perhaps for you specifically how do you act in The World of Good and Evil when you know the "All Good" no matter how you come to it? Can the world know love other than hope? Why would of you or I testify of God'[s love and as if we had picked it up off a single branch off a single tree to a world that stores their apples by the bin, or bins from ministry to ministry, revelation to revelation, precept upon precept?


If the cross is enough, and of this we testify, why is love the very real experience within the Glory?

Try hard to be tolerant of me... as I am serious as life itself. If you can make heads or tail or something else please go ahead.

 

[gordon 2]

You know (Gordon) I thought of it right after I wrote it. Did it need amendment, repentance...explanation? Had I misspoken so terribly as to even be beyond repentance?

But your askings are no less balm to me than the living waters them (Him) self.

If I can preface with this...no man can fix himself. And as said elsewhere and earlier, I am persuaded this as surely means both repair and position. In God I have no knowing of myself as either freshest babe, child, teenager or man. For all I know of myself...even as Christ gives light...I can also (now) more easily submit to a peculiarity once stated/shown by another..."even if I be shown reprobate".

I may be shown as whatever Christ chooses of me, and for me, for His glory...I am powerless before Him.

So, as to crushing in the sense we may speak of. As to what we may may commonly understand as the dealings of God as in chastenings toward discipline. And of His glory displayed in those times in contrast (and O! such contrast!) to what I have known of me...my ways, my thinking, my deportment, my folly, my errors, my own malice and hostility ...etc...anywhere we experience something of that sense of being taken to the woodshed. Those times an inward soul searing and sourly cringing is undeniable...yes...a crushing in that sense. A hand is upon me...and I cannot bear it. Yet...I live.

And these also include what at first may appear as "mere" circumstance...like waking up in jail. A death. Whatever may be written into...(if even for briefest of moments) as disappointment of situation. A wife leaving. A child taken away. A friend betraying. An array of mockers ready to do harm plainly...but somehow restrained enough to just throwing you in a dumpster.


But, no less, and also undeniable are those rapturous times (experiences) where glory seems to so inflate the soul to as near a bursting as one may believe they may come and can endure without vaporizing completely. Glory comes in the way appointed and necessary...and sometimes (often?) without all explanation.

But in these...as deep as they may seem to me...as pointed or shame revealing or just as well transporting to rapture...try as I might to fix my position (do you doubt I have tried?) they avail nothing. I may know there is a despairing of life itself, and believe Paul's testimony...and even have (what I think) is some testimony of it...but...am I merely a child who has scraped his knee while bicycling crying to the heavens as I see the red drop forming in the very superficial wound? That, I really do not know...though my presumptions have often been very great.

What has been by experience of any crushing as having "the weight of Glory" revealed...God may easily say..."kid, you have no idea how restrained I am being with you!" Yes..."I know you feel you are dying, I know you sense a something "heavy"...but trust me...you do not know except as your sensing tells you." Or just as likewise "I know you think you are seeing into the third heaven...but you'd better buckle up"

And it would be fitting (as I could not deny it) for any man (as I am being persuaded to be looking for Him) to say to me...even in regards to those things I have found help "Count it all joy" "For everything give thanks" (not merely "in everything" though it's outworking is no less salubrious) "He who believes in Him shall not be put to shame/disappointed/make haste" "Take no thought...for tomorrow, nor food, nor clothing..." Endure hardship as discipline" "The very hairs of your head are numbered" (nothing can be lost to God) "Entrust yourself as to a faithful creator..." and that every situation in life must be (can be) viewed through Christ alone who is life.

So yes...if I can go back to the start of the above paragraph of which I have made a mishmosh...I am looking for the man who tells me in truth "what you think you know is as nothing" And what you may think you have experienced, no less. Keep going.

And God has wisely sent many men and circumstances (or is it just enough in restraint?) to do just that. And I would be a liar by omission if I failed to say that at the first...even the slightest rebuke of me or hardship is as being flayed alive...until I am reminded (even by a heavier hand) I am not to be as the first man.

Then I am given to see another tree of which I am commanded to eat. Allowed to eat? Freely given to eat? Invited to eat. Irresistible for the eating.

Thanks be to God!

Someone is showing me a lot of restraint.

Thanks be to God!

As man as I love I rebuke and chasten...

I will closely read this a bit latter today. Already I note that we get "crushed" differently. Which is ok...

Ok I read it. My first instinct is to say: Did not Jesus get all beat up for us and Paul and Peter and ...

When Jesus came to Zacchaeus'[ house was it to beat him up? Never the less I trust that this is the way it is with you. Is this really the way Jesus has ministered to you? Or am I not understanding?

 

[StriperAddict]

If the cross is enough, and of this we testify, why is love the very real experience within the Glory?

Many good points and questions in your post to consider, and I enjoy them all, especially the one above, and perhaps this question holds the key?

I desire to be as clear as possible, not clever, not quick to a point, even though the essence of love, and that from God, is the chiefest of delights for me. But that's my first gut reaction to all you have said.

Why is love the very real experience within the Glory of God? My answer, testimony, is that I have found Him to be love, and loving, above all else. Again, this is my testimony, and my joy.

For me, a "love" recognition came first, the "hearing of the good news", then an acceptance of that. Some call that faith. And some believe that in that moment, love was given and infused - or opened, or made alive ... from God to me/us. Reaction? I don't live FOR the experience of love, or the experience of Him who is love, but to continue to grow - in knowing Him AND His Son's love, for me and the world. Should that produce a feeling or not, a tangible experience or not, is up to the One who holds my life IN His love.

Brother I truly hope this makes sense. To bring what I'm saying to a single thought is that - Love and the glory of God are both very relational, they are seen in the same light as FAMILY itself, Father to child, bride and bridegroom!

I believe you and I and every one that names the name of Christ as Lord, is a forever recipient of that sacrificial love. We are now no longer a slave (in the sense of us "producing" a love to GAIN love), but we are a friend, a SON to a tender Father who delights in SHOWING both His Glory and love.

God IS love. This is a bible statement yes, but when believed, when "seen" in simple trust, it can and will "yield the peaceful fruit of righteousness".


I may be mudding the waters (again?!) with all this, I cannot tell. To each their testimony, But in them, yours and mine, and those who are loves recipients, well, I wish nothing but the tenderness of Father's love in all our days until we are received into God's Glory - when this body will be refashioned like His body - in the final glory that awaits us.

I Cor. 15:49, Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

You're seeing only words on a page but right now there is hope in my heart from this discussion, perhaps with "groanings too deep for words."

Thank you my brother. I truly look forward to your heart's reflections in this.

 

[gordon 2]

Many good points and questions in your post to consider, and I enjoy them all, especially the one above, and perhaps this question holds the key?

I desire to be as clear as possible, not clever, not quick to a point, even though the essence of love, and that from God, is the chiefest of delights for me. But that's my first gut reaction to all you have said.

Why is love the very real experience within the Glory of God? My answer, testimony, is that I have found Him to be love, and loving, above all else. Again, this is my testimony, and my joy.

For me, a "love" recognition came first, the "hearing of the good news", then an acceptance of that. Some call that faith. And some believe that in that moment, love was given and infused - or opened, or made alive ... from God to me/us. Reaction? I don't live FOR the experience of love, or the experience of Him who is love, but to continue to grow - in knowing Him AND His Son's love, for me and the world. Should that produce a feeling or not, a tangible experience or not, is up to the One who holds my life IN His love.

Brother I truly hope this makes sense. To bring what I'm saying to a single thought is that - Love and the glory of God are both very relational, they are seen in the same light as FAMILY itself, Father to child, bride and bridegroom!

I believe you and I and every one that names the name of Christ as Lord, is a forever recipient of that sacrificial love. We are now no longer a slave (in the sense of us "producing" a love to GAIN love), but we are a friend, a SON to a tender Father who delights in SHOWING both His Glory and love.

God IS love. This is a bible statement yes, but when believed, when "seen" in simple trust, it can and will "yield the peaceful fruit of righteousness".


I may be mudding the waters (again?!) with all this, I cannot tell. To each their testimony, But in them, yours and mine, and those who are loves recipients, well, I wish nothing but the tenderness of Father's love in all our days until we are received into God's Glory - when this body will be refashioned like His body - in the final glory that awaits us.

I Cor. 15:49, Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

You're seeing only words on a page but right now there is hope in my heart from this discussion, perhaps with "groanings too deep for words."

Thank you my brother. I truly look forward to your heart's reflections in this.

Well I have never strived to know or to grow, nor have I purposely put myself in a way of trust that this would happen. The way I have lived, not knowing what was to live, I suspected only there was a place where the saints got their backbones, or declared this or that without the usual fear of error. I knew as a child that God had longed to gather Jerusalem. My instinct was that these two were somehow related.

It is just that one day like the "witness of God" came home with me, not unlike it was with Zacchaeus that God's witness came home with him. And I was changed and that change was added only positively, no conviction was mine to ruminate.

Let me make this plain: No bible study, no great Christian bible commentator, no promotion of the tradition, no testimony, no miracle, no hope, no prophecy, no meme, no prayer refrain, no preaching, no post on Forum GON's spiritual forum, no unexplained echo, no sign, no tired bible verse, no life was ever so complete, needing no amending, as when the love of God was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I have no reasons to boast either!<<< I stress this last point. If I asked the Holy Spirit for anything directly, I do not recall, as I would not have known what to ask for.

Now have I learned things about testimony? Apparently not enough. I'[m hoping that Israel is on to something. Few others help me, no fundamental, no evangelical, non that are my own.

Testimony haunts me... I'[m not sure why? It has been haunting me maybe 30 yrs. Israel might have hit a gold seam... I'm waiting, cause I know he's panning for results.

 

[formula1]

The greatest thing about a testimony that I have come to understand is that He who has need of nothing would invite me to be a vessel of His testimony. This is Love of the highest order! So come, be reborn, be new, and live His testimony. It is after all what we are born to do!

 

[StriperAddict]

Well I have never strived to know or to grow, nor have I purposely put myself in a way of trust that this would happen. The way I have lived, not knowing what was to live, I suspected only there was a place where the saints got their backbones, or declared this or that without the usual fear of error. I knew as a child that God had longed to gather Jerusalem. My instinct was that these two were somehow related.

It is just that one day like the "witness of God" came home with me, not unlike it was with Zacchaeus that God's witness came home with him. And I was changed and that change was added only positively, no conviction was mine to ruminate.

Let me make this plain: No bible study, no great Christian bible commentator, no promotion of the tradition, no testimony, no miracle, no hope, no prophecy, no meme, no prayer refrain, no preaching, no post on Forum GON's spiritual forum, no unexplained echo, no sign, no tired bible verse, no life was ever so complete, needing no amending, as when the love of God was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I have no reasons to boast either!<<< I stress this last point. If I asked the Holy Spirit for anything directly, I do not recall, as I would not have known what to ask for.

Now have I learned things about testimony? Apparently not enough. I'[m hoping that Israel is on to something. Few others help me, no fundamental, no evangelical, non that are my own.

Testimony haunts me... I'[m not sure why? It has been haunting me maybe 30 yrs. Israel might have hit a gold seam... I'm waiting, cause I know he's panning for results.

I testify that all that was done in Christ for me, to me, is as you have said, a wonder of His work. At least that is my understanding of your post.

That is my treasure. I may testify of such a work poorly, but not my intention to cause a stumbling block. Christ will be this to ones not believing, but He Himself never condemns, and always gives life from the extraordinary measure of the love that came of the cross.

Growth is in the renewing of our minds, it's not contradictory to faith and undeserved grace and peace. In fact its complementary, in my opinion, and even if you turn away scriptures and bible study (a part of your note I do not get), Father God is still making all goodness and grace alive to you and I at all times by the active love He enjoys to express to us in the here and now. An on the inside of us in union with His Spirit, we get to share as He leads us.

Simplicity again for me ... in Him we live and move and have our being. Sorry if the bible expressions are not your cup. Yet His love is not bound by our convictions, testimonies and writings.

Peace to you and yours.

 

[StriperAddict]

The greatest thing about a testimony that I have come to understand is that He who has need of nothing would invite me to be a vessel of His testimony. This is Love of the highest order! So come, be reborn, be new, and live His testimony. It is after all what we are born to do!

Beautiful, thank you brother

 

[gemcgrew]

There is only one Testimony, one Place, one Person, one Righteousness etc... where a believer can rest in confidence. All other ground accuses.

 

[gordon 2]

There is only one Testimony, one Place, one Person, one Righteousness etc... where a believer can rest in confidence. All other ground accuses.

I'[m thinking: Today no one believes anything. The world is seen as having percolated everything, every institution and every role. There is no trust in any discipline, in any college, in any profession, in any person. ( Can't even trust that 22 Rimfire cartridge or the 30-30 cartridge anymore.) For some this includes God, not trusting Him, for others might God be the last rampart?

This is not the world I was raised in. For example: If I had said to my mother that " as a believer I had no rest in her mothering or her" well guess what would have happened? I will leave that to your imagination.



"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

" Will teach all things"? Can I testify of the teaching of one or some of these things, or more than one, at different times and places, being they are more than one thing, and which are not single in One Person, not single in One place, not single in one Righteousness and it is still a valid testimony? If I can then there is not only one Testimony.

If I testify of ( lay out) a teaching by the Holy Spirit, detailing the content and effects, the subject and the content, is it more than a personal revelation? Someone said that it was as if Christ was teaching.??? Between the two there is a large-huge gulf.

Why would someone think it is not all about me? Why would someone think it is a Testimony of one Person? Why would-might some other consider it a testimony of how the Holy Spirit came to teach what Jesus said on love and it being a Testimony on love and not so much on the testimony of the salvific nature of God?

If I compare my teaching ( what I was taught) which changed me to Zaccheaus'[ overnight with Jesus and how it changed him--- is it about Jesus? or the change? or the reason* the cause* for the change apart of the Master stating it? If I say love changed the sawed off tax collector as it changed me, that is that God'[s love as a item ministered independent of Jesus. It testifies of changing a person's life due God's love alone, and nothing else.

We have no need to kill our prophets today because we don'[t believe them--Christ, the corporate revelation, that is this Christ who died for the sins of the world and our individual sins is enough? The Holy Spirit need not reach more?

 

[gemcgrew]

If I say love changed the sawed off tax collector as it changed me, that is that God'[s love as a item ministered independent of Jesus. It testifies of changing a person's life due God's love alone, and nothing else.

Fine, but I can't say that. I can not make that separation.

 

[gordon 2]

Fine, but I can't say that. I can not make that separation.

I think what you say here is very understandable. I will think on it.

 

[hummerpoo]

Fine, but I can't say that. I can not make that separation.

You could if you thought that God is a superman or that Man was a minigod.

 

[gemcgrew]

You could if you thought that God is a superman or that Man was a minigod.

"Minigod"...lol

I did see that.