The recovery of reasonableness 1 Tim 1:16-20

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Israel

Senior Member
and the leveraging of apostles.

More to follow.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
No doubt. Why do old men have young men's flings with the truth?

“And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
 
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Israel

Senior Member
Because Whom truth is never grows old.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
1 Tim. 4:14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

Succession
 
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Israel

Senior Member
Yes, the prophecy held the gift.

And it is not unusual for men to not even realize when they are prophesying.
 
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Thread starter #8

Israel

Senior Member
How does a prophecy hold "the gift"?
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


And what was "the gift"?
It had to do with his calling in the Lord, whether it was in specific reference to what is mentioned here in 1 Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:5,6 by Paul, I do not know.

Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.



For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
 

blood on the ground

🦌Cross threading is better than two lock washers.🦌
Y'all lost me with this one. Not being a smarty pants ... Help understand.
 

Madman

Senior Member
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.



It had to do with his calling in the Lord, whether it was in specific reference to what is mentioned here in 1 Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:5,6 by Paul, I do not know.

Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.



For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
And that gift was recognized by the “laying on of hands”, for apostolic succession.
 
Thread starter #11

Israel

Senior Member
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead...
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:


(in no way "man" dependent)

Recognition is one thing (of which even Paul held in little regard)

"If I be not an apostle to others..."
 

Madman

Senior Member
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead...
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:


(in no way "man" dependent)

Recognition is one thing (of which even Paul held in little regard)

"If I be not an apostle to others..."
so very true, Paul an Apostle of Jesus Christ, Timothy an apostle of Jesus Christ.
 

Madman

Senior Member
The purpose of apostolic succession is for 3 bishops "to transmit the faith EXACTLY as it was transmitted to you".

We all need safe guards less we go off the rails.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
The purpose of apostolic succession is for 3 bishops "to transmit the faith EXACTLY as it was transmitted to you".

We all need safe guards less we go off the rails.

Off the rails and onto new gage. It is what it is. It ain't gona get to one gage again if ever. The stock is moving...on the main lines. That is the best we can hope for now and possibly that is all we could hope for from the get go. The ministers of Christ have a bit of leveraging to do. Some of the stockyards they will come up to are ministries antagonistic to Christ even. I wish them God's favors... and bypass even.
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
Y'all lost me with this one. Not being a smarty pants ... Help understand.
I think the tread started with the idea of apostolic leverage. Which I understood was a way God intended that the good news was to be peached world wide. So leverage is used to do extra work. The apostles used the roman roads, hub places, and the trade routes to lever their operations. Paul is a great example how God leverages his intended mission regards the Good News. Paul was a Jew, he was a Roman, he was a Pharisee ( a smart dude) and a tent maker... God's leverage to us was therefore Paul himself, who he was in the days he lived.

( Note I might be wrong on this... after all it the tread was started by Israel and this is my "guess" what he was sort of after. He might be better at explaining the tread content than I can. )

So it can be said that God still uses leverage to spread the Good News and to minister to the flock which of course there is always more to follow. Maybe that is what Israel was driving at. Maybe he seen something worth seeing. Maybe.



Regards prophecy. I'm not sure Israel and Madman are on the same page or are talking bout the same things with reference to prophecy. I might be wrong on this, however. Nevertheless... the prophecy Israel seems to talk about is that generally Prophecy is the injector of spiritual gift. While Madman seems to say that prophecy recognizes gift that is already there. Again maybe I'm wrong.

One thing for certain is that Paul was an apostle of God... few would argue that he is not.

Do you think apostle (s) and prophet(s) are relevant today within the body of Christ and in ministry to gentiles, Blood On The Ground ? Do you have some experience or perhaps you know something you might share?

By the way, I appreciate you asking what is going on in this tread. Someone who asks questions makes for a good saint in my book. :) Note it is my book... I'm sure some would not agree and that is fine too. :)
 
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blood on the ground

🦌Cross threading is better than two lock washers.🦌
I think the tread started with the idea of apostolic leverage. Which I understood was a way God intended that the good news was to be peached world wide. So leverage is used to do extra work. The apostles used the roman roads, hub places, and the trade routes to lever their operations. Paul is a great example how God leverages his intended mission regards the Good News. Paul was a Jew, he was a Roman, he was a Pharisee ( a smart dude) and a tent maker... God's leverage to us was therefore Paul himself, who he was in the days he lived.

( Note I might be wrong on this... after all it the tread was started by Israel and this is my "guess" what he was sort of after. He might be better at explaining the tread content than I can. )

So it can be said that God still uses leverage to spread the Good News and to minister to the flock which of course there is always more to follow. Maybe that is what Israel was driving at. Maybe he seen something worth seeing. Maybe.



Regards prophecy. I'm not sure Israel and Madman are on the same page or are talking bout the same things with reference to prophecy. I might be wrong on this, however. Nevertheless... the prophecy Israel seems to talk about is that generally Prophecy is the injector of spiritual gift. While Madman seems to say that prophecy recognizes gift that is already there. Again maybe I'm wrong.

One thing for curtain is that Paul was an apostle of God... few would argue that he is not.

Do you think apostle (s) and prophet(s) are relevant today within the body of Christ and in ministry to gentiles, Blood On The Ground ? Do you have some experience or perhaps you know something you might share?

By the way, I appreciate you asking what is going on in this tread. Someone who asks questions makes for a good saint in my book. :) Note it is my book... I'm sure some would not agree and that is fine too. :)
No I have no in site or opinions on the subject I was just a little confused as the conversation was over my head to a degree.
I'm in the middle of a change in my life due to some major health scares lately. My heart, soul, and mind are a sponge for the word right now. I have a desire to grow in the Lord and want to hear and understand everything I can so that I may serve my maker.
Hope that isn't to much to lay out there at once.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I hope you mend up real good.

Just for conversation. I'm betting that Paul was all sponge and questions most of his life and that is the reason he had answers to a lot of things that might have been perplexing to others, added to the fact that the Holy Spirit sort of pinned him down so he would "rise up" a new man!
 
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Madman

Senior Member
Regards prophecy. I'm not sure Israel and Madman are on the same page or are talking bout the same things with reference to prophecy. I might be wrong on this, however. Nevertheless... the prophecy Israel seems to talk about is that generally Prophecy is the injector of spiritual gift. While Madman seems to say that prophecy recognizes gift that is already there. Again maybe I'm wrong.
One thing for certain is that Paul was an apostle of God... few would argue that he is not.
In the particular case mentioned I believe Timothy was trained to become a minister in the Church and had everything needed. He could have been anything, however, I believe, by whatever means, the Apostles saw fit to "lay hands on him" thereby making him a Bishop or at least a priest for the purpose of continuing the faith as it had been given to Paul and the others.

I believe confirmation confirms the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. Ordination, the laying on of hands for a priest by a bishop is the churches AMEN to the Priesthood, and the laying on of hands by 3 bishops to ordain a Bishop is a means of continuing the faith as it has been received.
 
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