Thermal Scope Recommendations - Predator | Hog | Multi-caliber

[Tight Lines]

All --

I am looking to add a thermal scope to my 6MM ARC AR-15 that I am building, and I would like some feedback...most products these days you can find specs on and detailed reviews but more importantly comparisons. If you want a TV there are 4,812 detailed lists of recommended versions.

I find thermal scope reviews and recommendations particularly vexing. They seem to be vague, incomplete, or maddeningly long YouTube videos. The ones you do find that are reviews seems to be product endorsements vs. reviews and it's difficult to find apples-to-apples comparisons.

So far my friends have recommended or deterred me from the following:

• Recommended: Trijicon, Bering, Pulsar
• Avoid: ATN, anything less than $2000

I like the Pulsar products, and I have used the Bering Optics Hogster. Trijicon is out of my price range.

For those of you that have a lot of experience with them school me on what the key features are, etc. I'm a tech savvy early adopter and have a lot of experience with imaging devices so I understand the pixel counts, optical zoom, etc.

Ideally I would like a rifle scope that I can use in the daylight and thermal at night with high resolution, long battery life, ruggedness i.e. IP rated waterproof, good zoom and multiple reticles and thermal scanning options.

I'm willing to spend up to $5K with a good warranty and durability.

So school me experts of GON!

 

[madsam]

I have ATN X sight 4k pro….would not purchase this scope again. Poor performance for me.

 

[Tight Lines]

I have ATN X sight 4k pro….would not purchase this scope again. Poor performance for me.

Thank you. Can you elaborate on why you didn't like it?

 

[madsam]

Mainly the infrared Was less than satisfactory. Especially when moving the scope around . Tracking and clarity performance was poor.

 

[Tight Lines]

This is one I'm looking at: https://beringoptics.com/catalog/?goods=221

 

[Tight Lines]

This is what my brother recommended but no way I'm dropping that kind of coin on one device, even if I could afford it, which I can't: https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/reap-60-3

 

[Tight Lines]

And this is the third: https://www.pulsar-nv.com/glo/products/33/thermal-imaging-riflescopes/thermion-2-lrf/

 

[ChidJ]

It really depends on your budget. Consumer thermals go from 1k to 20k and beyond. Contrast, resolution, and durability are really all that drive the price up (there are other things like patented software etc but these are the main things). For example, ATN Thor 4, can't really confidently identify quadrupeds beyond 30 yards. Clip on a Trijicon UTC XII and you can identify those same quadrupeds out to ??? I've looked out to 700 (I don't own one, just got to look through it)

If you are looking for a killer deal on a well regarded device, EuroOptic has the Burris devices on sale and I'd say they are comparable to the Bering devices. IIRC around 1800 bucks shipped

Also take a look at the Steiner Nighthunter stuff. Its pretty new and seems well regarded.

Edit: Also, I know you are mostly mentioning standalone units but for added flexibility, I think its worth looking at some of the smaller units that can pull double duty as helmet mounted units. For example, the Nvision NOX18 is pretty excellent in front of a low power scope for what it is which keeps your nice new rifle from being pidgeon-holed into night only use. You may have already considered this but just a thought for anyone else who may come across this thinking about something similar. Also, nice to have a thermal on helmet as opposed to on gun as you don't have to point your gun at everything you want to look at in the dark.

 

[Tight Lines]

It really depends on your budget. Consumer thermals go from 1k to 20k and beyond. Contrast, resolution, and durability are really all that drive the price up (there are other things like patented software etc but these are the main things). For example, ATN Thor 4, can't really confidently identify quadrupeds beyond 30 yards. Clip on a Trijicon UTC XII and you can identify those same quadrupeds out to ??? I've looked out to 700 (I don't own one, just got to look through it)

If you are looking for a killer deal on a well regarded device, EuroOptic has the Burris devices on sale and I'd say they are comparable to the Bering devices. IIRC around 1800 bucks shipped

Also take a look at the Steiner Nighthunter stuff. Its pretty new and seems well regarded.

Edit: Also, I know you are mostly mentioning standalone units but for added flexibility, I think its worth looking at some of the smaller units that can pull double duty as helmet mounted units. For example, the Nvision NOX18 is pretty excellent in front of a low power scope for what it is which keeps your nice new rifle from being pidgeon-holed into night only use. You may have already considered this but just a thought for anyone else who may come across this thinking about something similar. Also, nice to have a thermal on helmet as opposed to on gun as you don't have to point your gun at everything you want to look at in the dark.

Thanks for the reply...

- budget is probably $5K, at least $2K
- planning to get QD mounts so I can swap it out
- head mounted unit would be cool too because yes using the weapon to point and view is not optimal nor safe IMHO so that is a consideration

I'll look at these others as well. Part of the draw to Bering is that they were the OEM manufacturer for a bunch of folks IIRC but I'm no expert in this field for sure...

Keep the thoughts coming...no hurry...

 

[madsam]

I am going check pout tri/pulsar....

 

[sleepr71]

You may get more input if you move this to the Varmint + Hog Hunting forums. To ME..the ideal thermal would be small enough to be used as a handheld scanner/spotter…then attach quickly in front of my daytime optic.

 

[Tight Lines]

You may get more input if you move this to the Varmint + Hog Hunting forums. To ME..the ideal thermal would be small enough to be used as a handheld scanner/spotter…then attach quickly in front of my daytime optic.

I'm not familiar with any that do that...do you have recommendations?

 

[ChidJ]

I started typing and then felt like, "man, this is a lot to type and a big purchase to make based on whatever I can cram into a forum post". In a perfect world, you have 50 grand and you get a top end weapon mounted device and a top end device for your eyeball/observation (UTCXII & SkeetIR-X). It really just comes down to what you are gonna do.

If you have 5k and are just going to sit in a box stand overlooking a remote food plot to shoot pigs and the 6 ARC is gonna be your dedicated pig gun, take your 5k and put it all into a good standalone unit, shop around and I think you'll be able to get into an Nvision Halo35. I think that is gonna give you the best pure thermal performance for that price tag. No frills, bells, whistles. Just a great image in a device suited for your rifle.

If you want a device to pull double duty as a clip on or helmet mounted, look for an Nvision Nox18. Mind you, in the scenario presented by @sleepr71 this device wouldn't quite work as the QD rifle mount makes it a shade heavy. You'd have to configure it the way you want to run it for the evening and it will run that way for the entirety of the hunt. Kinda tough (not impossible) to reconfigure to run one way or another quietly and in the dark. Easy to do in your shop at home, though.

If you want to get both devices, get the Burris I mentioned earlier (almost identical to the Bering Hogster) and grab an iRay MH25 for the helmet and I think you can just squeeze in at the 5k mark. These have chinese cores but in this budget range, thats all you'll get.

The Nvision devices are right at the edge of your budget but unlike the Pulsar or Bering, they have US cores as opposed to Chinese. Hope this helps. I'm also not an expert, just someone with a middling interest

 

[chase870]

Thermal is tricky and has a pretty steep learning curve. I hunt 4 to 5 nights a week when I'm able to. I like Trijicon and have several. They have some models that are a step down from the Reap IR. I like the IR Hunter models they have MK II and MK III. The MK II is more than enough for all you will encounter in Georgia Has a wider field of view than the MK III, this is important for running shots etc. The MK III is the preferred model for me on a bolt gun and has a narrower field of view, this increases range and accuracy. It is the same scope as the Reap IR with the exception of the controls. The Hunter models use knobs vs. joystick. The knobs are easier to use with gloves when it's cold, and I was able to adapt to the tech easier with a knob control vs. a joystick. You should be able to find a MK II for under 5K, I would not be afraid to buy a used Trijicon, as I have nothing but good things to say about their customer service. I would be banned here for my commits on the ATN customer service

As far as clip on devices go, I stay away from them. I strongly recommend having a dedicated thermal rifle combo regardless of thermal make or gun make once it's set up leave it alone and check the zero from time-to-time. The recital / cross hairs are digital Vs. actual cross hairs in a traditional optic. I don't have a lot of "loss of zero" issues but have dropped a rifle before, and it's all digital so I check it from time to time. Trijicon has the IR Patrol, a clip on thermal, my Buddie has one I opted for the IR Hunter MK II when we made or initial purchase, hands down the dedicated scope rifle combo wins every time. I have a handheld pulsar monocular for spotting, it is not a clear and sharp as the Trijicon on the rifle, but it is great for spotting and much lighter than a gun scope combo.
This is just my personal experience with thermal. I have seen and hunted with ATN, Pulsar, and Trijicon. I would stay away from ATN for sure, Pulsar is a good scope and would not be afraid to use one. I also stay away from internal batteries or rechargeable batteries. The Trijicon uses C 123 batteries, and it has a feature to allow a rechargeable battery if you like. I use the C 123 as they are a bit more compact and its one less pouch and cable on the rifle, less to go wrong in the dark.

Be happy to hunt or shoot with you anytime if you want to test drive one and see the difference in models MK II vs. MK III

 

[sleepr71]

Very solid advice^^^

 

[Tight Lines]

Thermal is tricky and has a pretty steep learning curve. I hunt 4 to 5 nights a week when I'm able to. I like Trijicon and have several. They have some models that are a step down from the Reap IR. I like the IR Hunter models they have MK II and MK III. The MK II is more than enough for all you will encounter in Georgia Has a wider field of view than the MK III, this is important for running shots etc. The MK III is the preferred model for me on a bolt gun and has a narrower field of view, this increases range and accuracy. It is the same scope as the Reap IR with the exception of the controls. The Hunter models use knobs vs. joystick. The knobs are easier to use with gloves when it's cold, and I was able to adapt to the tech easier with a knob control vs. a joystick. You should be able to find a MK II for under 5K, I would not be afraid to buy a used Trijicon, as I have nothing but good things to say about their customer service. I would be banned here for my commits on the ATN customer service

As far as clip on devices go, I stay away from them. I strongly recommend having a dedicated thermal rifle combo regardless of thermal make or gun make once it's set up leave it alone and check the zero from time-to-time. The recital / cross hairs are digital Vs. actual cross hairs in a traditional optic. I don't have a lot of "loss of zero" issues but have dropped a rifle before, and it's all digital so I check it from time to time. Trijicon has the IR Patrol, a clip on thermal, my Buddie has one I opted for the IR Hunter MK II when we made or initial purchase, hands down the dedicated scope rifle combo wins every time. I have a handheld pulsar monocular for spotting, it is not a clear and sharp as the Trijicon on the rifle, but it is great for spotting and much lighter than a gun scope combo.
This is just my personal experience with thermal. I have seen and hunted with ATN, Pulsar, and Trijicon. I would stay away from ATN for sure, Pulsar is a good scope and would not be afraid to use one. I also stay away from internal batteries or rechargeable batteries. The Trijicon uses C 123 batteries, and it has a feature to allow a rechargeable battery if you like. I use the C 123 as they are a bit more compact and its one less pouch and cable on the rifle, less to go wrong in the dark.

Be happy to hunt or shoot with you anytime if you want to test drive one and see the difference in models MK II vs. MK III

Awesome advice, thank you, and thanks for graciously offering the chance to connect. This is exactly why I posted here because the online comparisons and reviews just don't do a good job of comparing, and at this level of investment it's not trivial, at least for me. That's what has kept me from purchasing every time I get close I get cold feet because I feel unsure about the investment.

 

[chase870]

Awesome advice, thank you, and thanks for graciously offering the chance to connect. This is exactly why I posted here because the online comparisons and reviews just don't do a good job of comparing, and at this level of investment it's not trivial, at least for me. That's what has kept me from purchasing every time I get close I get cold feet because I feel unsure about the investment.

On line reviews and one shot zero claims and all the rest of the hype take them with a grain of salt. One of the biggest issues is range. You lose depth perception in the dark and thermal increases that. You will see and hear guys talking about killing yotes at 300, 350, 400, and even the occasional 500 yard kill. I hunt a good bit and the long shots are pretty tough to do. My thermal moicular has a laser range finder it it and I go ahead and get target referance points before I call so I have a good idea of the distance to the yote. I'm sure some guys have better tripods and rests to shoot off of than I do, but I doubt their kill ratio on those long shots is all that impressive. I use a tripod that clamps the gun into it and that helps. I also shoot some and practice when I can. 200 yards is a long shot for me, and about the max you will consistently kill yotes at in my opinion. I have a life size yote target with a vital area that swings when hit. Its steel and is visible most days with the thermal if the sun and temp are right the vital area has a different heat signature, so you have an aiming point. The picture attached is my target with one round from each of my guns at 200 yards with a cold barrel shooting off my tripod standing up exactly like I hunt. I also video most of my hunts and you can see them on Rumble if you like, chase870 there too. If you look in the predator hunting forum here, I have a coyote hunt thread and the link to video is there on posts where I have killed a yote.

 

[sghoghunter]

I’ve had pulsar and currently have a Hogster vibe 35. I have listened to 100’s of podcasts about thermal and night vision scopes in the past couple years and can tell you deciding between models can be confusing and you can make an expensive mistake quick. Look up legacy outdoors and call them and tell them what you want and budget and he will help you even if you don’t buy from them. They also have the late night vision show podcast. Look up this particular podcast and listen to what they say about this scope. If I could justify spending that type of money I’d have one for sure but right now I’m happy with the Hogster

 

[ddgarcia]

Ideally I would like a rifle scope that I can use in the daylight and thermal at night with high resolution

This is an impossibility. A thermal is a thermal day or night. What you may be thinking of are things like the ATN X-Sight or in my case the Sightmark Wraith. These are not thermals but IR sensitive digital cameras basically.

If you haven't seen enough here, here is the link to a thread I started in the Firearms section on the same topic.

https://forum.gon.com/threads/thermal-scopes.1024617/

I've been pleased with my Wraith but it has its limitations and like you I am looking to add a thermal to my cabinet and will likely go with a Pulsar, which I have been told is a FRENCH core, not Chinese as someone posted (still don't know the actual truth of this but will find out soon), but the Trijicon is a little more than I'd like to explain to the missus. Plan on visiting a shop in the near future to have a long discussion with someone far more knowledgeable in these things before I make the purchase. Biggest question is, what's the difference between the XG, XM, XP and XQ models of what appear to be the exact same scope (Thermion and Trail) and what is the difference between both of those other than design.

Id be happy to have a conversation with you about the digital night vision if youre interested. If you're convenient to Athens we could meet up or just shoot me a PM and we can work something out.

 

[sghoghunter]

This is an impossibility. A thermal is a thermal day or night. What you may be thinking of are things like the ATN X-Sight or in my case the Sightmark Wraith. These are not thermals but IR sensitive digital cameras basically.

If you haven't seen enough here, here is the link to a thread I started in the Firearms section on the same topic.

https://forum.gon.com/threads/thermal-scopes.1024617/

I've been pleased with my Wraith but it has its limitations and like you I am looking to add a thermal to my cabinet and will likely go with a Pulsar, which I have been told is a FRENCH core, not Chinese as someone posted (still don't know the actual truth of this but will find out soon), but the Trijicon is a little more than I'd like to explain to the missus. Plan on visiting a shop in the near future to have a long discussion with someone far more knowledgeable in these things before I make the purchase. Biggest question is, what's the difference between the XG, XM, XP and XQ models of what appear to be the exact same scope (Thermion and Trail) and what is the difference between both of those other than design.

Id be happy to have a conversation with you about the digital night vision if youre interested. If you're convenient to Athens we could meet up or just shoot me a PM and we can work something out.

Like I said in your post I would call someone that reviews scopes instead of someone that sells them. Legacy outdoors will be more than glad to help you with any questions you have. 99% of places that sells thermal are dealers for one brand and their not going to tell you another brand is better than what they sell.